Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Nice try. We’ve done the Racist bit, the older voter claim, the uneducated, now we are fanatical religious zealots. If I changed the word Brexiteer with Remainer the same claim would be recognised. The reality of course is that the Remainers believe that they are superior to those who voted Leave and therefore they should ignore the democratic vote of the people and ignore the votes previous taken within Parliament in enacting article 50. I know what I am, and my education, industrial background and experience brought me to the conclusion that leaving was in the best interests for both my country and my family. I also respect a democratic vote. Do you really know what you are ?.......

It's not a 'try' Pete, it's how things are. All the data regarding leave-voting correlations is in the public domain, but, like with religion, the true believers in Brexit aren't interested in any of it as they have their own gut feeling and internal story to follow rather than any need for harsh reality. Arguing against being portrayed as a zealot by acting like one isn't fooling anyone. Just because you personally buck a trend doesn't deny the trend exists.

And no, if you move the words the other way round it wouldn't mean the same thing, that's a pathetically weak argument akin to the theist claims of "oh, you just have faith in science, it's the same thing". It's a sad state of affairs that you can't really understand what's driving your own beliefs and behaviour and have to take the immature attitude of "Oh all the remainers are the same as me and therefore I'm justified in wearing my blinkers".

I respect the sovereignty of Parliament, Pete. I don't believe the result of an advisory referendum (one that would have been declared void if it had been binding) should be respected over the informed processes of the elected representatives if the result of that referendum has been shown repeatedly to be unworkable. I would have agreed that it would have been wrong of Parliament to just ignore the result altogether but years down the line and with no sign of resolution across the border, it's time to accept that there isn't an acceptable path to any Brexit resolution that could be considered 'successful', unless your single measure of success for the country is 'not in the EU'.

And I'm not interested in your glib 'oh so clever' one liners that end in an ellipsis as if you're twisting the knife on a particularly barbed point...
 
Firstly Pete, there's been no suggest that this is what would happen, so you're projecting your own wishes onto the flip flopping canvas of the charlatans that are leading this process. Secondly, the actual cities that the Thames flows through, such as Oxford, Reading and of course London all voted strongly to remain, because they appreciate that much of the success they enjoy is a result of EU membership. Not only do you take every opportunity to talk London down, but you also dismiss the views of remain voting cities at every opportunity. So please don't pretend you give two hoots about the cities on the Thames.
@peteblue makes it quite clear, quite regularly, that he is patriotic for a Britain that never actually existed but detests the one he lives in. It's an odd thing to wrap so much of your identity in a country you don't seem to like
 
I understand entirely Bruce, but amazingly these things also happened before we joined the Common Market. They will also continue after the U.K. is no longer within the political EU grouping. My point of course is that it’s a two way street, and when all parties gain then even the silly buggers running the U.K. and the EU will understand and make life simpler with appropriate agreements.....

By that logic, trade has always happened, so there's no point trying to strike trade deals with anyone. I've no doubt the most determined will make things work regardless of the circumstances, but that's not the point. It's about making things that benefit everyone as easy as possible, and leaving the EU doesn't do that, and leaving with no deal certainly doesn't.
 
Really don't believe this helps it as it's extremely hard not to put it across without sounding superior, not read or heard this trail of thought without coming away cringing because of patronising nature, unintended or not!

You're not wrong! It's hard for people to hear they have voted along the same lines as society's racists (and those with lower educational qualifications etc.) without it sounding insulting, even if neither of those applies to them personally.

And it is picked up on and does get used by the Leave camp - Mark Francois is an absolute expert at turning such a line of debate into an insult not just at him but, by proxy, at the 17 million Leavers. He will then go into a brilliant faux-rage diatribe on behalf of them and start demanding apologies, calling it outrageous slurs and the like, and immediately putting any interlocuters on the defensive that they might have overstepped the mark.

Rationality vs emotive reaction. Remain vs Leave.
 
It's not a 'try' Pete, it's how things are. All the data regarding leave-voting correlations is in the public domain, but, like with religion, the true believers in Brexit aren't interested in any of it as they have their own gut feeling and internal story to follow rather than any need for harsh reality. Arguing against being portrayed as a zealot by acting like one isn't fooling anyone. Just because you personally buck a trend doesn't deny the trend exists.

And no, if you move the words the other way round it wouldn't mean the same thing, that's a pathetically weak argument akin to the theist claims of "oh, you just have faith in science, it's the same thing". It's a sad state of affairs that you can't really understand what's driving your own beliefs and behaviour and have to take the immature attitude of "Oh all the remainers are the same as me and therefore I'm justified in wearing my blinkers".

I respect the sovereignty of Parliament, Pete. I don't believe the result of an advisory referendum (one that would have been declared void if it had been binding) should be respected over the informed processes of the elected representatives if the result of that referendum has been shown repeatedly to be unworkable. I would have agreed that it would have been wrong of Parliament to just ignore the result altogether but years down the line and with no sign of resolution across the border, it's time to accept that there isn't an acceptable path to any Brexit resolution that could be considered 'successful', unless your single measure of success for the country is 'not in the EU'.

And I'm not interested in your glib 'oh so clever' one liners that end in an ellipsis as if you're twisting the knife on a particularly barbed point...

The old ‘advisory referendum’ claim again. Even though the Government of the day insisted that the result would be acted upon, that Parliament actually voted to enact and that both main parties claimed in a manifesto in a GE that they would acknowledge and act upon. But of course you know better, just like your informed parliamentary representatives who are more concerned with being in power and a job than democracy. Just admit that you believe you know better, but for completeness could you let us all know why you believe you know better. Oh, and I don’t use ellipses, I use dots......just dots....
 
@peteblue makes it quite clear, quite regularly, that he is patriotic for a Britain that never actually existed but detests the one he lives in. It's an odd thing to wrap so much of your identity in a country you don't seem to like

How on earth can you arrive at this assertion that I detest my country. I love my country. If this is how your warped sense of reasoning is applied to come up with the wrong answer then no wonder you voted Remain.......
 
The old ‘advisory referendum’ claim again. Even though the Government of the day insisted that the result would be acted upon, that Parliament actually voted to enact and that both main parties claimed in a manifesto in a GE that they would acknowledge and act upon. But of course you know better, just like your informed parliamentary representatives who are more concerned with being in power and a job than democracy. Just admit that you believe you know better, but for completeness could you let us all know why you believe you know better. Oh, and I don’t use ellipses, I use dots......just dots....
Just because a government says they will do something doesn't mean they will. Manifesto promises aren't always delivered as you well know.

The reality is that it was an advisory referendum, which the government (who regularly backtracked on policy promises) said they would implement, but it was not legally binding (although it is now).

I would also suggest you look up the term ellipses...
 
Just because a government says they will do something doesn't mean they will. Manifesto promises aren't always delivered as you well know.

The reality is that it was an advisory referendum, which the government (who regularly backtracked on policy promises) said they would implement, but it was not legally binding (although it is now).

I would also suggest you look up the term ellipses...

I know the difference between your ... and my ...........
 
How on earth can you arrive at this assertion that I detest my country. I love my country. If this is how your warped sense of reasoning is applied to come up with the wrong answer then no wonder you voted Remain.......

Because you keep harking back to how previous generations were better, you talk as if you think 48% of the people are idiots, you moan about London constantly, about the amount of crime, about the political entities it's a member of. Patriotism is an unthinking man's curse, and you're proving it
 
You're not wrong! It's hard for people to hear they have voted along the same lines as society's racists (and those with lower educational qualifications etc.) without it sounding insulting, even if neither of those applies to them personally.

And it is picked up on and does get used by the Leave camp - Mark Francois is an absolute expert at turning such a line of debate into an insult not just at him but, by proxy, at the 17 million Leavers. He will then go into a brilliant faux-rage diatribe on behalf of them and start demanding apologies, calling it outrageous slurs and the like, and immediately putting any interlocuters on the defensive that they might have overstepped the mark.

Rationality vs emotive reaction. Remain vs Leave.

Those are just symptoms and goes nowhere near the cause of the divide. The trouble with remain its selective in what it uses and only wants to talk about the date after June 23 2016.

In truth there are many remainers as there are leavers up to their necks in what caused the divide in the UK, the years leading up 2016, the need to ignore those years fuels everyday the leaver and their outcomes, hence leaves resolve it's aided and abetted by remains selective data etc.
 
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