Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Brexit sartorial elegance personified.



99 times out of 100 there's a deeper story behind things like that.

There was an incident at Manchester Arena where someone wearing a Union Jack waistcoat was asked to leave, but the reality is he was asked to leave as part of a wider group who was being unruly and they used the waistcoat as an excuse to moan on Twitter.
 
99 times out of 100 there's a deeper story behind things like that.

There was an incident at Manchester Arena where someone wearing a Union Jack waistcoat was asked to leave, but the reality is he was asked to leave as part of a wider group who was being unruly and they used the waistcoat as an excuse to moan on Twitter.
Or turning up after a little Tommy protest and expecting to be treated like a hero by people with more than one brain cell.

As is the case here.
 
Or turning up after a little Tommy protest and expecting to be treated like a hero by people with more than one brain cell.

As is the case here.
What's gonna happen when these guys don't get free stuff for being ott nationalists after brexit then?

Suppose Boris will give them an arm-band or something...
 
https://nicep.nottingham.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/2019-01-Mclaren-Neundorf-Paterson.pdf

People born between 1920 and 1960 most hostile about immigration. <puts on Colombo hat>Now which generation is it that supports Brexit again?</takes off Colombo hat>

Now when I looked at the chart it said that the scores went from 1-10 with 10 being the most favourable. The range of responses seemed to be from about 4.25 - 5.8 with the 1920 cohort being towards the 4.25 and the 2000 cohort being at 5.8 with those in between graduating up across a range of just 1, across just a single point out of 10. If anything I think scores ranging from 4.25 - 5.8 tends to show that as a nation we are reasonably tolerant of immigration. Of course the chart is cropped at both ends to try and paint a picture of extremes....
 
Now when I looked at the chart it said that the scores went from 1-10 with 10 being the most favourable. The range of responses seemed to be from about 4.25 - 5.8 with the 1920 cohort being towards the 4.25 and the 2000 cohort being at 5.8 with those in between graduating up across a range of just 1, across just a single point out of 10. If anything I think scores ranging from 4.25 - 5.8 tends to show that as a nation we are reasonably tolerant of immigration. Of course the chart is cropped at both ends to try and paint a picture of extremes....

It's a lot more balanced than my post to be fair, and was merely showing the changes in social attitude between the generations, before speculating on how policy should change to respond to that change. I'm not sure Britain has become more favourable towards immigration despite the population becoming more so, do you?
 
It's a lot more balanced than my post to be fair, and was merely showing the changes in social attitude between the generations, before speculating on how policy should change to respond to that change. I'm not sure Britain has become more favourable towards immigration despite the population becoming more so, do you?

I think it has Bruce. The different generations grew up with vastly differing backgrounds, lots in their late 60’s may have grown up and never met anyone who wasn’t white in their formative years. Can they be blamed then somehow for only seeing white people. Obviously not. The other thing is reluctance for change, the older person prefers stability and the younger person likes change, supposedly, but not in the case of Brexit where it has apparently reversed. Five year olds are completely comfortable with technology, iPads, spreadsheets etc etc whereas older people actually became old without ever having had a chance to become familiar with the technology which they may or may not shun. They do not hate the technology, they just have never learnt to become familiar with it. It takes time, but in terms of immigration I would suggest that most older people are now more than comfortable with it.....
 
I think it has Bruce. The different generations grew up with vastly differing backgrounds, lots in their late 60’s may have grown up and never met anyone who wasn’t white in their formative years. Can they be blamed then somehow for only seeing white people. Obviously not. The other thing is reluctance for change, the older person prefers stability and the younger person likes change, supposedly, but not in the case of Brexit where it has apparently reversed. Five year olds are completely comfortable with technology, iPads, spreadsheets etc etc whereas older people actually became old without ever having had a chance to become familiar with the technology which they may or may not shun. They do not hate the technology, they just have never learnt to become familiar with it. It takes time, but in terms of immigration I would suggest that most older people are now more than comfortable with it.....

Indeed, and the paper does say as much. What I don't agree with however is this notion that Brexit is a vote for change, at least not in the sense you mean it. I've no doubt that you view Brexit as a chance to free Britain from the shackles of Europe and be bolder and more adventurous, but I suspect, and most of the poll data confirms this, that the majority of Brexiters don't want Britain to be more global, but rather more local. They want to reduce migration, to focus more on local matters than international, to have protectionist trade policies and various other things that strongly hint that they don't want the competition that being global inevitably means as that requires them to change, and to date they have changed very unsuccessfully. It's been said many times before, but the people and regions who have most adapted to the global world we operate in tended to vote remain.

Brexiters are less Walter Raleigh than Ned Ludd.
 
Indeed, and the paper does say as much. What I don't agree with however is this notion that Brexit is a vote for change, at least not in the sense you mean it. I've no doubt that you view Brexit as a chance to free Britain from the shackles of Europe and be bolder and more adventurous, but I suspect, and most of the poll data confirms this, that the majority of Brexiters don't want Britain to be more global, but rather more local. They want to reduce migration, to focus more on local matters than international, to have protectionist trade policies and various other things that strongly hint that they don't want the competition that being global inevitably means as that requires them to change, and to date they have changed very unsuccessfully. It's been said many times before, but the people and regions who have most adapted to the global world we operate in tended to vote remain.

Brexiters are less Walter Raleigh than Ned Ludd.

Perhaps, but our Remainers are no better...... I did like the Ned Ludd comment though......
 
Perhaps, but our Remainers are no better...... I did like the Ned Ludd comment though......

It's perhaps a semantic point to an extent, but I could very much accept the notion that remainers are (relatively) content with things as they are, but I'd argue that 'things as they are' is a pretty rapidly changing landscape, with new technologies and newly emerging economies changing things significantly. I don't get the sense that the people of Scunthorpe want to leave the EU so that their steel workers can be exposed to more competition but so they can be insulated from competition. I suspect you and I are both broadly speaking free market advocates, so we can perhaps agree that this isn't ideal, but I don't see anything emerging from Brexit advocates about how people in Scunthorpe can better adapt to the world they find themselves in.

It seems summed up to an extent by a mind numbing exchange between James O'Brien and a caller the other day, in which the caller was from a tech company and voted to leave because he thought the EU was holding them back, which is fair enough. Sadly, when asked to explain how this was happening, he just blathered out nonsense about sovereignty and control and all the meaningless soundbites that have so dominated the discourse from leave advocates. Far be it for me to dismiss those things, but they aren't going to put food on the table, yet that's all we have, and Johnson has seemed to deliberately avoid saying anything vaguely resembling a policy (at least for the working class Brexiters rather than the wealthy ones like yourself).

The discussion has become so dumbed down I fear the country is at risk of slipping into a stupor.
 
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