Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

hey @Bruce Wayne good to see the rest of Europe trying to lure us back in by voting against our Eurovision song as normal !

goes to show how we are viewed by the EU , with utter disdain ...

Always the victim huh? It's Eurovision, stop being a silly sod.

 

[Frang]

Always the victim huh? It's Eurovision, stop being a silly sod.

we all know its got nothing to do with the music and that its just a way of showing countries political stance.

we don't finish bottom every year for no reason bruce.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

we all know its got nothing to do with the music and that its just a way of showing countries political stance.

we don't finish bottom every year for no reason bruce.

We've come last 4 times in the 60 years its been running (versus winning 5 times). Indeed, our performance isn't dissimilar to that of Germany. Had you done one simple Google search you'd have found that out rather than wallowing in this silly victimhood of them the nasty foreigners hating us. The Brextremists are widely despised, but there is a lot of warmth for the country as a whole.

 

[Frang]

We've come last 4 times in the 60 years its been running (versus winning 5 times). Indeed, our performance isn't dissimilar to that of Germany. Had you done one simple Google search you'd have found that out rather than wallowing in this silly victimhood of them the nasty foreigners hating us. The Brextremists are widely despised, but there is a lot of warmth for the country as a whole.

we just came last bruce.

 

[roydo]

We've come last 4 times in the 60 years its been running (versus winning 5 times). Indeed, our performance isn't dissimilar to that of Germany. Had you done one simple Google search you'd have found that out rather than wallowing in this silly victimhood of them the nasty foreigners hating us. The Brextremists are widely despised, but there is a lot of warmth for the country as a whole.

And we did give Abba 0 points back in the day. Sort of even stephens now.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The 1965 Race Relations Act clearly states that racism is the practice or desire for less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins. So yeah, your wanting to change how people are treated purely on the grounds of their nationality is just that. By all means take it up with the courts if you want to change the legal definition. Of course, we've been through all of this numerous times already, so I don't expect this time to be any different. You've convinced yourself that because it's the most powerful actor in society doing the bashing on the most powerless, it's somehow ok to break that basic legal principle. Mental gymnastics seems a peculiar strength of many UKIPers.

Let's take this in baby steps so everybody can understand what you are saying here.

1. Part of Brexit process will remove freedom of movement of EU nationals to and from the UK

2. This is deemed a practice for less favourable treatment on grounds of nationality.

3. Therefore, anybody who voted Brexit is a Racist.

Is that about the gist of it Bruce?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Let's take this in baby steps so everybody can understand what you are saying here.

1. Part of Brexit process will remove freedom of movement of EU nationals to and from the UK

2. This is deemed a practice for less favourable treatment on grounds of nationality.

3. Therefore, anybody who voted Brexit is a Racist.

Is that about the gist of it Bruce?

For those who did so to curtail the freedom of people based upon their nationality, yes.

 

[Barnfred 55]

For those who did so to curtail the freedom of people based upon their nationality, yes.

So anybody who is against free movement of people is a Racist? Is that what you are saying Bruce?

 

[summerisle]

Fruity language, from a couple of years ago, funny.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

'Future of Britain is in Europe,' the Queen told Germany in 1988

Diplomatic cables reveal the monarch also appeared to back the creation of a single market

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...f-britain-in-europe-diplomatic-cables-germany

The Queen confided to the German ambassador that she believed the future of Britain lay in Europe, newly released diplomatic cables from 1988 have shown.
“Some have not realised this yet,” the monarch allegedly said of her subjects. She also appeared to back the creation of the single market.

 

[nsno-chris]

Let's take this in baby steps so everybody can understand what you are saying here.

1. Part of Brexit process will remove freedom of movement of EU nationals to and from the UK

2. This is deemed a practice for less favourable treatment on grounds of nationality.

3. Therefore, anybody who voted Brexit is a Racist.

Is that about the gist of it Bruce?

The law already exists. It’s part of European law that if a person is not supporting the economy they can be removed and returned.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So anybody who is against free movement of people is a Racist? Is that what you are saying Bruce?

That's what the law says. It's there in black and white for you to read as well as anyone else. That the government have been given the right to be prejudiced in a way that no one else in society can does not make it any less wrong.

 

[Barnfred 55]

That's what the law says. It's there in black and white for you to read as well as anyone else. That the government have been given the right to be prejudiced in a way that no one else in society can does not make it any less wrong.

So by your interpretation, every country in the world, unless I'm mistaken, is fundamentally racist, because I'm not aware of any country that has completely open borders.

That rather belittles the term "Racist" in my opinion. I'd prefer to reserve the term for those more deserving.

And from a legal perspective, good luck too. I can't envisage many successful prosecutions against sovereign countries who require sight of a passport to admit foreign nationals, or permits to allow them to work.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So by your interpretation, every country in the world, unless I'm mistaken, is fundamentally racist, because I'm not aware of any country that has completely open borders.

That rather belittles the term "Racist" in my opinion. I'd prefer to reserve the term for those more deserving.

And from a legal perspective, good luck too. I can't envisage many successful prosecutions against sovereign countries who require sight of a passport to admit foreign nationals, or permits to allow them to work.

I think the distinction lies in the belief that you don't discriminate because of race, you do it because of nationality. You favour your own national population over nationality of others.

We'll just ignore definitions from things like The Equality Act 2010 for now...

Indeed:

"However, the act also offers protection beyond the EU directives, protecting against discrimination based on a person's nationality and citizenship[4][5] and also extending individuals' rights in areas of life beyond the workplace in religion or belief, disability, age, sexual orientation and gender reassignment. "

Yes but the Equality Act makes allowance for discrimination in certain circumstances, immigration being one of them.

Schedule 3 of the Equality Act 2010 includes provisions allowing discrimination in the area of
immigration.

There are three types of discrimination, which Schedule 3 permits in certain circumstances –disability, race and religious belief. So a Government Minister, carrying out an immigration function, can treat someone differently and less favourably by reason of their nationality, ethnicity or national origins. It also allows Government authorisation of the UK Border Agency to act in the same way.

I made no comment on this point. As someone who favours free movement and has worked in support of Refugees and Asylum seekers you can probably ascertain my veiws lol

But what I will say is the Government Immigration Bill 2014, was completely at odds with the Equality Act 2010 in so much as it forced Landlords, who aren't exempt from S3, unlike Government ministers and Border Officers, to check the right to rent of tenants, to apply a test which is illegal, by virtue of being racist, under the Equality Act.



There's probably a good dissertation premise in there somewhere.

The important bit in that exchange is this bit:

Government Immigration Bill 2014, was completely at odds with the Equality Act 2010 in so much as it forced Landlords, who aren't exempt from S3, unlike Government ministers and Border Officers, to check the right to rent of tenants, to apply a test which is illegal, by virtue of being racist, under the Equality Act.

R (Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2019] EWHC 452 (Admin), Spencer J, 01 March 2019

Judgement is here: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/452.pdf

Just because a government is legally allowed to be racist, doesn't mean it's actions are not racist...as evidenced by that JCWI case.

I suppose I'm just making it up as I go along though hey...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So by your interpretation, every country in the world, unless I'm mistaken, is fundamentally racist, because I'm not aware of any country that has completely open borders.

That rather belittles the term "Racist" in my opinion. I'd prefer to reserve the term for those more deserving.

And from a legal perspective, good luck too. I can't envisage many successful prosecutions against sovereign countries who require sight of a passport to admit foreign nationals, or permits to allow them to work.

I did say that you haven't accepted the legal definition of racism in the past so I didn't expect you to do so now either.