Very expensive wafffle which you as a Remoaners would make a point off every post........
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Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
People keep on going on about the leave campaign being illegal. It was illegal in so far as the official Vote Leave organisation overspent their budget by around 10%. The way people are going on you're making out they were standing outside poll stations intimidating voters and forcing people which way to vote. Remain overall still outspent leave by over £2m during the campaign. And this totally ignores the £9m+ spent by the government.
You all say that this was the governments duty. No, you are wrong. The govts duty was to give impartial information to the electorate to help them make their mind up. But that leaflet was 100% supporting remain. There was not a single benefit of leaving the EU listed. The Govt should have been listed as the most prominent Remain organisation and given the same £7m budget as Vote leave were. If that were the case they exceeded their budget by closer to 30%. Going on from there, the BSIE group would not have had their £7m budget. Talking of the BSIE group, there have also been allegations that they made many "donations", similar to the Vote Leave campaign, that were initially allowed by the Electoral Commission. These just haven't been challenged in court.
The ironic thing in all this is, had the government been more impartial, then they probably would have influenced a lot more people who were undecided. But because they came out on one side, people saw it as the govt telling them what to do.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Like what?
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Really???
I've probably been through these at least 3/4 times in here in the past mate. I'm not repeating them again as all that happens is I end up with half a dozen people arguing with me, and for all the will in the world I am not like Davek who can carry on numerous conversations simultaneously.
I don't expect you to go back through all my posts. But just ask yourself this. Would 17.4m people vote to leave the EU if there was not ONE single benefit of doing so?
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Can I just add that I fully expected that question to be asked when I typed that comment. But I thought it would come from one of the bigoted hard line remain supporters in here. Not somebody who has usually been a bit more open minded like yourself.
Not sure I’ve seen many ‘bigoted hardline remain supporters’ on here. Could be cos I’m a looking at things from one side. Any examples?
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
No, it was illegal in the sense that they broke the law - even the pathetic law we have now regarding campaign funding and the influence of dark money. To try and obfuscate what Grimes et al did with whataboutery as you are doing is to entirely miss the point.
Though you do raise an important point about the Government "cheating" on spending limits during the referendum, which of course should lead the responsible part of the media to take a step back and actually recognize that the 2016 referendum was largely fought between the Government (Conservative) and Vote Leave (Conservative) with the tabloid papers (Conservative supporters), social media firms (hired by Conservatives and given an awful lot of tax breaks and support by the Conservatives) and lobbying firms (Conservative donors and supporters) all playing major roles in the scandal of what occured in 2016.
They might then ask how likely it is that a Conservative Party who saw how effective illegal campaigning was in 2016, which had many of the people at the top who had actually used illegal campaigning in 2016, which was funded by the same sort of people and which didn't have what Labour had (a large membership and thousands of canvassers) wouldn't go on to use it in 2017.
It already is dead, has been for ages, what we have is zombie democracy.
Parliament, by way of the tories collective cabinet decision making...effectively Cameron, gave us the referendum.
That same Parliament, though via a totally different aspect of it, having previously decided by a near 5 - 1 majority that brexit should and did mean brexit, now effectively decides...because it can't make up its own mind what sort of brexit it wants, or, it has to be said, if it really, really, deep down, wants it all.
But on the day, those who were asked to vote and actually turned out to vote, voted leave.
A 2nd vote or otherwise over turning the result...which will in effect be the same thing, is the anti-democratic version of shooting the messenger.
Its the facist zombie parliament saying sniff it...we will because we can and you lot can do one.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Well most, if not all, of the perceived benefits of leaving seem to have been exposed as fairy dust over the last few years, and/or we already have them anyrate.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
It is the Tory Party who promised the referendum, the Tory Party who ran both Leave and Remain campaigns, the Tory Party who negotiated Brexit and (with the DUP) have a majority in the Commons. Parliament - the Commons - is actually doing what it is meant to do, hold the Government to account and not meekly accept its blandishments.
You mean project fear has been issued - look our car industries will struggle without Brexit - the electric car - The fact while we stuttered on leaving the EU the EU did a cosy FREE TRADE deal with Japan says it all really...
our main industry is finance and Macron can't wait to get his hands on it......
we should have had a coalition government of Bretier MPs from day one , but would it have made any difference?
The civil service have the hands on it since day one as they value their jollies to Brussels as a perk of their job ......
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Like I said, the perceived benefits of leaving are fairy dust. As it stands, the UK has a free trade deal with Japan. When we leave, we wont.
Good job eh?
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Below is a definition of bigoted.
Now bear in mind I'm talking about in relation to Brexit specifically here, not in general.
I'm struggling to name any remain supporter in here, or that I've had a conversation with generally about Brexit anywhere else, that has not had a bigoted attitude towards my views on Brexit. And I consider myself to be a very moderate Brexiteer. There may have been one or two exceptions, but from memory everybody else's attitude has been you're wrong, we're right. Nobody has even tried to understand it from my side.
You may not see that as being bigoted. But it is.
/ˈbɪɡətɪd/
adjective
adjective: bigoted
- obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices.
Fairy liquid more like we need to wash our hand off the EU before it goes belly up and fetches us down with it....
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Why is it Unreasonable to think leaving or remaining is good or bad? I would guess that most on both sides have arrived at their decision following their own mind/listening to the arguments.
My opinion may well differ from others as to the validity of their reasoning, but I dont think thats unreasonable.
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