Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Old Blue 2]

Old Blue 2, you have embarrassed yourself throughout this thread, but claiming that Farage speaks sense and is what our country needs has to be a new low point for you - anyone with a shred of common sense reaches the conclusion that the man is a disgrace.

Especially after his humiliating display today.

You just don't like that fact that your side came second in a two-horse race. Get over it! The EU has been shown to be a crock of sh1t and we are well out of it, but people like you can't see the wood for the trees. Or refuse to accept that it is, in defence of your stance. It is YOU, and those others like you in this thread, that have been embarrassing. I've never seen such crying, and crying, and crying, in my life...!

 

[Seanjd]

They have a responsibility to create an environment that encourages those with capital to invest and create jobs. Not to be the creator of the jobs themselves.

Exactly, to ensure jobs are there for people to be employed in. This isn't happening. In fact, the opposite is happening and has been happening since Thatcher's government.

Anyway it's time for bed. Good night.

 

[Efcjake]

Appreciate that in a system such as ours, each level is necessary to prop up the next. It is intentional that people are maintained within their station with the occasional achievement lauded to perpetuate the cycle. When some succeed they rarely reach the upper echelons. That is also true for migrants in perspective.

Ok but are you going to change that? The balance of power is firmly out of the hands of your everyman but they do still have some power to improve their lives.

 

[dandydan]

You continue to place the blame on the individual, rather than admit that there is a circumstantial problem which was not anywhere near as big a problem when workin class communities were thriving because of secure, well paid and reliable jobs.

These people are not punished by themselves. This suggests that they are mentally weaker than middle class young people who might have no problem securing the job they want. Now that's not to say working class people don't do that either, of course that's not the case. But it's less likely.

They are punished by the lack of industry, lack of jobs and more recently, a demonisation agenda from both media and politicians who use them for their own political gain.

A lot of what you have said has made sense but I have to disagree with this. I know a lad who is well respected in his chosen career path and owns a very successful business from having started at the bottom. He grew up on the same estate as me and went to all the same schools but is doing much better than me, and pretty much everyone else despite having the same oppourtunites.
The government could do more but they can't give people a work ethic and ambition, that's down to the individual.

 

[Efcjake]

Exactly, to ensure jobs are there for people to be employed in. This isn't happening. In fact, the opposite is happening and has been happening since Thatcher's government.

Anyway it's time for bed. Good night.

Good night lad. See people we were just having a debate. No hurt feelings for anyone.

 

[Efcjake]

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to EU chat now.

 

[bizzaro]

i have trouble with the remain voters being totally ok with an un elected EU commision of 28 , making 3/4 of all our laws. wheres the sense in that?? there is no sense whatsoever, esp when they are anti-Uk .

Juncker was elected. All heads of the commission are indirectly elected by the 'European Council' which is the heads of state/government in the member states.

Commissioners are elected also.

Some things have changed. Like Britain's veto.

To stop unsuitable candidates like Juncker getting the position.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Juncker was elected. All heads of the commission are indirectly elected by the 'European Council' which is the heads of state/government in the member states.

Commissioners are elected also.

Some things have changed. Like Britain's veto.

To stop unsuitable candidates like Juncker getting the position.

 

[dandydan]

I can't understand people wanting a parliment where our failed and disgraced politicians can go and get cushy non jobs. We already have the House of Lords for that.

 

[bring the ghost on]

You just don't like that fact that your side came second in a two-horse race. Get over it! The EU has been shown to be a crock of sh1t and we are well out of it, but people like you can't see the wood for the trees. Or refuse to accept that it is, in defence of your stance. It is YOU, and those others like you in this thread, that have been embarrassing. I've never seen such crying, and crying, and crying, in my life...!

Mate, based on the above post, it seems to be you who is a bit irate - I'm not sure what has upset you??

Yes, I would have preferred to remain, but I've debated sensibly without resorting to vulgarity. You, on the other hand, have ranted, raved, bigged up Farage, slagged off all remain voters in a broad brush approach, refused to accept that immigration played in part in the outcome, and that's just for starters - you've really had a shocker to be honest mate.

Maybe if you take a step back, you'll realise that just because 52% voted Leave, that doesn't automatically mean that "we're better off out", or that "the EU is a crock of sh1t", or that remain voters "can't see the wood for the trees". Stop being so appallingly condescending, we have our opinion on the EU and you have yours, but your attitude stinks.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

There would be exactly the same protests in reverse if Remain had won. The right to protest is part and parcel of living in a democracy. People are entitled to their opinions - in the main - and if they want to protest about any issue or decision they are within their rights to do so.
There is also the issue of what you mean by democracy. It could be argued - and has been on this thread - that the only reason we had a referendum was to give the Tories a better chance at the last election by minimising the effect of UKIP on the Conservative vote. The Conservatives did not have an overall majority of the people voting for them - even out of those who voted - so you could say that this whole situation has been based on the views and preferences of a minority of the population. Is that democratic?

I'd be saying exactly the same thing to the other side if the remain camp won and the Brexit side protested. Anti democracy protesters are just as disgusting whichever side their on. They are perfectly entitled to protest but they have absolutely no right to call for the removal of their fellow countrymen/woman's rights and demand another referendum because they don't like the results of the previous one. I don't care about the reason it was held or the political untruths we were given (by both sides) the country was asked a question and the people gave an answer. If people were to stupid to understand what they voted for then that's their own fault for not taking the time to educate themselves on the issue. Democracy dictates that everyone has a right to vote no matter how stupid they are, it might not be perfect but it's the best system we have. We can't take away somebody's vote because their thick! Now it might not be the answer you wanted and it might prove to be the wrong one in the end (I don't think so myself personally but that not the point) but if you truly care about democracy and want us to remain a free society were we can always vote for what we believe to be right and have the will of the people upheld, then you MUST abide by the will of the majority regardless of how much you disagree with them.

 

[magicjuan]

Ok but are you going to change that? The balance of power is firmly out of the hands of your everyman but they do still have some power to improve their lives.

Do you know the reason this exists? It is because we allow it to. We have been convinced this is the best way. We are convinced that to upset this system will mean punishment, loss of wages, benefits, homes. We have been told that wealth will trickle down to the benefit of everyone. We've been terrified to challenge even though we know and see suffering everywhere we go. We allow it to.

The Peterloo massacre was almost 200 years ago and in all that time we have allegedly advanced, putting man on the moon, internet taking over, second by second trading and nothing has changed, because we're told it can't. It can.

When Shelley wrote the poem in response of the massacre he included the lines...

Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number,
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."

The last line.

 

[dandydan]

Let's see what broadsheet journalists have to say.

 

[neil999]

A lot of what you have said has made sense but I have to disagree with this. I know a lad who is well respected in his chosen career path and owns a very successful business from having started at the bottom. He grew up on the same estate as me and went to all the same schools but is doing much better than me, and pretty much everyone else despite having the same oppourtunites.
The government could do more but they can't give people a work ethic and ambition, that's down to the individual.

Too simplistic this

 

[Old Blue 2]

Mate, based on the above post, it seems to be you who is a bit irate - I'm not sure what has upset you??

Yes, I would have preferred to remain, but I've debated sensibly without resorting to vulgarity. You, on the other hand, have ranted, raved, bigged up Farage, slagged off all remain voters in a broad brush approach, refused to accept that immigration played in part in the outcome, and that's just for starters - you've really had a shocker to be honest mate.

Maybe if you take a step back, you'll realise that just because 52% voted Leave, that doesn't automatically mean that "we're better off out", or that "the EU is a crock of sh1t", or that remain voters "can't see the wood for the trees". Stop being so appallingly condescending, we have our opinion on the EU and you have yours, but your attitude stinks.

You lost. Get over it. It is your attitude that stinks, because you can't accept the fact you lost. So you harp on, and harp on, and harp on... Yawn...

You may have read many pages ago that I do not like Farage or his party, but agree with his reasons for wanting out of the EU. I do not like Boris or Gove, but they were in the 'Out' camp. I think Corbyn is an honourable man, and has taken the correct line when he has stated he would take the important utilities back into public ownership; when he has wanted to ensure the fat cat Captains of industry pay their proper taxes and thus put our economic scenario on a healthier footing. But he was in the 'Remain' camp. OK, fine, I get over it.

I think you are the one having a shocker. Like a dog with a bone, you just will not let it go...

I have no intention of wasting any further time on you. May we be united in hoping Everton play a blinder all next season and finally pick up silverware again.