Current Affairs EU In or Out

[everton2004]

Sake. State of this thread.

 

[Seanjd]

What do you think the migrants are doing? You can't just wait for this high paying job to get created and fall in your lap. You have to go out and do what you can to get it.

Well, firstly that depends on your background. I can guarantee that lots of people who come from wealthy backgrounds don't have to put in this graft to go out and get this job.

Secondly, you have huge numbers of people competing for a low number of jobs. Like I've said over and over tonight, if the job isn't there, you can't have it. Who's fault is that?

 

[Efcjake]

Sorry, I meant to use the word defeated when quoting what you wrote, not punished.

You sound drafted yourself mate. "If the jobs have left the community, unfortunately there's nothing anyone can do about it." That's it then. No blame? No questions as to why they aren't there? No fight against the cause of why they went?

My whole aegument has been based around your insistence that it's up to the individual to fix their own poverty, and those who don't aren't trying hard enough. Now you're saying if the jobs aren't there, there's nothing we can do and we have to stop moaning and get on with it.

I'm glad you've changed your mind. Good night.

So it is the government's responsibility to ensure everyone has a well paid decent job?

Who's responsibility should it be?

 

[Seanjd]

So it is the government's responsibility to ensure everyone has a well paid decent job?

Who's responsibility should it be?

It's the governments responsibility to ensure there are jobs for people to have.

 

[Efcjake]

Whoa whoa. So people on benefits who struggle to hold down a well paid, regular job lack perseverance, but those with good jobs don't? This is incredible stuff. Please do explain.

Lol. No. People who want do manage to improve their career prospects have generally preserved in some way to make that happen.

People who don't persevere are unlikely to do so.

Do you think people just walk into those jobs without working for the qualifications or skills they need to be able to do it?

 

[Seanjd]

Sake. State of this thread.

Come ed lad, get involved.

 

[davmaher]

The Anti Brexit protesters currently outside parliament screaming for a second referendum make me ashamed of this country, do they want us to become a fascist state or a banana republic?! The complete contempt they hold democracy is truly shocking. I don't care if your pro remain or leave supporter you should respect the decision taken by the majority. If these extremely dangerous fools have their way we will sleepwalk into a very scary place, were a democratic mandate can be overthrown by a government who disagree's with it and a rabble like group of protesters. Just remember that if you support these insane anti democracy protesters, you'll have no cause to complain when the government ignore your vote for anything in the future if you voted the "incorrect" way.

There would be exactly the same protests in reverse if Remain had won. The right to protest is part and parcel of living in a democracy. People are entitled to their opinions - in the main - and if they want to protest about any issue or decision they are within their rights to do so.
There is also the issue of what you mean by democracy. It could be argued - and has been on this thread - that the only reason we had a referendum was to give the Tories a better chance at the last election by minimising the effect of UKIP on the Conservative vote. The Conservatives did not have an overall majority of the people voting for them - even out of those who voted - so you could say that this whole situation has been based on the views and preferences of a minority of the population. Is that democratic?

 

[Efcjake]

It's the governments responsibility to ensure there are jobs for people to have.

No it isn't. In a communist government it is but not in a capitalist one.

 

[everton2004]

Come ed lad, get involved.

Tearing strips off eachother? Personally I think it should be

 

[Seanjd]

Lol. No. People who want do manage to improve their career prospects have generally preserved in some way to make that happen.

People who don't persevere are unlikely to do so.

Do you think people just walk into those jobs without working for the qualifications or skills they need to be able to do it?

In some cases yes, in some cases no. But it harks back to this thinking of everybody, regardless of their socio-economic background, is entirely responsible for their career prospects. They aren't. There are more factors at play.

 

[Seanjd]

Tearing strips off eachother? Personally I think it should be

Nobody is tearing strips, it's sensible debate.

 

[Seanjd]

No it isn't. In a communist government it is but not in a capitalist one.

Government has no responsibility to ensure it's society has jobs for people to be employed in? Come on now.

 

[Efcjake]

You surely must see that statements like this do not make any economic sense. If a city is left by a government to rot away ("managed decline" ring any bells?) and that city then becomes radically poorer as a result, do you genuinely believe that the answer is to say "nowt anyone can do about it - people should leave"?

Actually it adheres to the economic principles of supply and demand. If there is an oversupply of labour it will generally result in individuals moving where there is demand for that labour.

Economically speaking if the area cannot sustain that level of population and there is no capital investment to resolve it then that population will decline as people leave to seek jobs and better prospects.

That also lowers the burden of the city having to provide services for a population it cannot support.

 

[magicjuan]

Maybe it won't work for some because of political factors, but it could be any other number of factors that prevent them from doing so. A good upbringing is a key one (Something that can be hard to with 12 kids).

I know we are talking about loads of people. Some of them are too far gone and the system has failed them. It is the younger people that are being raised on the estates in these families of twelve kids that grow up thinking that they won't ever be able to escape that destiny for themselves. They DO still have the opportunity to make something out of themselves but they have to consciously pursue it.

I'm not saying "I did it so can they", I'm saying it is possible and that being raised in poverty or working class is NOT a sentence for the rest of YOUR life. So many kids I knew back home were defeated by themselves and this self-perpetuating fallacy that they can never improve their station in life above what they were born into.

At least the migrants got off their arses and went looking for ways to improve their lives. Most've them had been born into worse poverty than what we've got people going through here but they didn't let it defeat them and their hopes of improving themselves.

Appreciate that in a system such as ours, each level is necessary to prop up the next. It is intentional that people are maintained within their station with the occasional achievement lauded to perpetuate the cycle. When some succeed they rarely reach the upper echelons. That is also true for migrants in perspective.

 

[Efcjake]

Government has no responsibility to ensure it's society has jobs for people to be employed in? Come on now.

They have a responsibility to create an environment that encourages those with capital to invest and create jobs. Not to be the creator of the jobs themselves.