Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Frank Gallagher]

Mate. Let's not polish a turd.

Juncker should never of been on the position he was. 10 years ago we would have been able to veto him

i have trouble with the remain voters being totally ok with an un elected EU commision of 28 , making 3/4 of all our laws. wheres the sense in that?? there is no sense whatsoever, esp when they are anti-Uk .

 

[magicjuan]

For every piece of racism I've seen reported or highlighted, I've seen one of snobbery. The very foundation of this country, in fact exported globally, especially Europe, is the class system, everyone knows their place and that place is given to them, they are afforded levels of luxury and become oblivious to the fact that to create one person's comfort at least 10 would be suffering or living impoverished to provide it.

This 'fight' isn't about colour or nationality, the sooner more people realised that of all the various for and against arguments over Europe, one, I'll repeat that ONE, was chosen above all others, by the media, to be the be all and end all of the discussion, immigration.

This had been stoked up over years. They knew exactly what buttons to push, who would bite at the rhetoric and how beneficial it would be.

If you look up the shock and awe tactic as defined by Naomi Klein you'll see how it is used.

This is not about race, creed or colour it's about change and making that change maintain the systems of who has what and who doesn't.

 

[Efcjake]

Cause they ain't got any because prospects are virtually non existent due to a loads of political factors, not least the destruction of huge amounts of reliable jobs which have been replaced with low paid, unappealing, unreliable jobs.

See, it is dead easy to just end it there isn't it.

Except, work the crap job. Put in a graft. Take the money and be smart with it. Save it. Want a better job? Work for it. Put savings into some sort of skills training so that you can achieve that goal.

It is do-able. Maybe not for everyone but a lot of people could do that.
It doesn't happen over night but people do this all around the world.



...Or you could give up and say it isn't going to happen because of loads of political factors.

 

[Seanjd]

When something like this is reported, I always wonder where is the father or fathers, are they not providing support? needs to be asked why did she engage in sex so much, clearly it was not just 12 times so why not on the pill etc. She is not the words mentioned but perhaps irresponsible.

Yeah you could call her irresponsible. Not that it's mine or anybody else's place to do that, though. It's her choice, she's allowed to.

 

[Seanjd]

For every piece of racism I've seen reported or highlighted, I've seen one of snobbery. The very foundation of this country, in fact exported globally, especially Europe, is the class system, everyone knows their place and that place is given to them, they are afforded levels of luxury and become oblivious to the fact that to create one person's comfort at least 10 would be suffering or living impoverished to provide it.

This 'fight' isn't about colour or nationality, the sooner more people realised that of all the various for and against arguments over Europe, one, I'll repeat that ONE, was chosen above all others, by the media, to be the be all and end all of the discussion, immigration.

This had been stoked up over years. They knew exactly what buttons to push, who would bite at the rhetoric and how beneficial it would be.

If you look up the shock and awe tactic as defined by Naomi Klein you'll see how it is used.

This is not about race, creed or colour it's about change and making that change maintain the systems of who has what and who doesn't.

Basically, what I've been trying to say for a few days. Well put.

 

[Seanjd]

See, it is dead easy to just end it there isn't it.

Except, work the crap job. Put in a graft. Take the money and be smart with it. Save it. Want a better job? Work for it. Put savings into some sort of skills training so that you can achieve that goal.

It is do-able. Maybe not for everyone but a lot of people could do that.
It doesn't happen over night but people do this all around the world.



...Or you could give up and say it isn't going to happen because of loads of political factors.

It isn't going to happen on a large scale because of political factors. You even said in that post that it won't work for some people. We aren't talking about a small number of people here but loads who are trapped in poverty. It is not simply a case of working your way up - not for everyone. The prospects simply aren't there.

It's too easy an argument. "I did it so can they." Ultimately, it's loads harder if you're born into circumstances like these. Like you say, some find a break, but most don't. It isn't fair.

 

[bring the ghost on]

I've got some tissues here somewhere...

Old Blue 2, you have embarrassed yourself throughout this thread, but claiming that Farage speaks sense and is what our country needs has to be a new low point for you - anyone with a shred of common sense reaches the conclusion that the man is a disgrace.

Especially after his humiliating display today.

 

[Seanjd]

Want a better job? Work for it. Put savings into some sort of skills training so that you can achieve that goal.

I just find this attitude incredibly ignorant. What if the jobs aren't there? What if the only jobs which are there are crap, unreliable jobs with no ways of progressing? Low paid without guaranteed hours? What skills are you gaining from this job to progress and get a better one? How can you save up to pay for education and skills when you're trying to support yourself or a family on less than the minimum wage?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

The Anti Brexit protesters currently outside parliament screaming for a second referendum make me ashamed of this country, do they want us to become a fascist state or a banana republic?! The complete contempt they hold democracy is truly shocking. I don't care if your pro remain or leave supporter you should respect the decision taken by the majority. If these extremely dangerous fools have their way we will sleepwalk into a very scary place, were a democratic mandate can be overthrown by a government who disagree's with it and a rabble like group of protesters. Just remember that if you support these insane anti democracy protesters, you'll have no cause to complain when the government ignore your vote for anything in the future if you voted the "incorrect" way.

 

[Efcjake]

It isn't going to happen on a large scale because of political factors. You even said in that post that it won't work for some people. We aren't talking about a small number of people here but loads who are trapped in poverty. It is not simply a case of working your way up - not for everyone. The prospects simply aren't there.

It's too easy an argument. "I did it so can they." Ultimately, it's loads harder if you're born into circumstances like these. Like you say, some find a break, but most don't. It isn't fair.

Maybe it won't work for some because of political factors, but it could be any other number of factors that prevent them from doing so. A good upbringing is a key one (Something that can be hard to with 12 kids).

I know we are talking about loads of people. Some of them are too far gone and the system has failed them. It is the younger people that are being raised on the estates in these families of twelve kids that grow up thinking that they won't ever be able to escape that destiny for themselves. They DO still have the opportunity to make something out of themselves but they have to consciously pursue it.

I'm not saying "I did it so can they", I'm saying it is possible and that being raised in poverty or working class is NOT a sentence for the rest of YOUR life. So many kids I knew back home were defeated by themselves and this self-perpetuating fallacy that they can never improve their station in life above what they were born into.

At least the migrants got off their arses and went looking for ways to improve their lives. Most've them had been born into worse poverty than what we've got people going through here but they didn't let it defeat them and their hopes of improving themselves.

 

[bring the ghost on]

The same scroats who can't stop having kids despite having no means of supporting them.

 

[Seanjd]

Maybe it won't work for some because of political factors, but it could be any other number of factors that prevent them from doing so. A good upbringing is a key one (Something that can be hard to with 12 kids).

I know we are talking about loads of people. Some of them are too far gone and the system has failed them. It is the younger people that are being raised on the estates in these families of twelve kids that grow up thinking that they won't ever be able to escape that destiny for themselves. They DO still have the opportunity to make something out of themselves but they have to consciously pursue it.

I'm not saying "I did it so can they", I'm saying it is possible and that being raised in poverty or working class is NOT a sentence for the rest of YOUR life. So many kids I knew back home were defeated by themselves and this self-perpetuating fallacy that they can never improve their station in life above what they were born into.

At least the migrants got off their arses and went looking for ways to improve their lives. Most've them had been born into worse poverty than what we've got people going through here but they didn't let it defeat them and their hopes of improving themselves.

Now, in your last paragraph, you imply laziness is the root cause. I give up.

The barriers in place for working class people to overcome in this country are massive. It's bloody hard, and they can't always be overcome by graft.

 

[Efcjake]

I just find this attitude incredibly ignorant. What if the jobs aren't there? What if the only jobs which are there are crap, unreliable jobs with no ways of progressing? Low paid without guaranteed hours? What skills are you gaining from this job to progress and get a better one? How can you save up to pay for education and skills when you're trying to support yourself or a family on less than the minimum wage?

What if the jobs aren't there?

Then you move.

What if the only jobs are crap, unreliable jobs with no ways of progressing?

Did you not read the bit I said about working, saving, and going out and getting skills training.

What if the jobs are low paid and without guaranteed hours?

Take the job, save money, identify a job that is not low paid and has guaranteed hours and draw up and achieve a plan to receive the skills training you need so you can earn better money.

What skills are you gaining from this job to progress and get a better one?

In all likelihood if you don't have any qualified skills to speak of, then you're doing unskilled work. You should save some of the money you have been paid and put it towards getting trained in a skill that is in demand.

How can you save up to pay for education and skills when you're trying to support yourself or a family on less than the minimum wage?

Well you can support yourself on minimum wage and low hours. It is manageable. It isn't nice, or easy, but it is doable.

If you already have a family then you've put yourself in that position without attempting to achieve financial security before having a family and that was not a wise idea. You could have done what I'm saying above before having kids, it probably would have been wiser. I don't know what to tell you about this other than my point from before about it being a bad idea to start a family that you can't afford.

 

[toffee matt]

The Anti Brexit protesters currently outside parliament screaming for a second referendum make me ashamed of this country, do they want us to become a fascist state or a banana republic?! The complete contempt they hold democracy is truly shocking. I don't care if your pro remain or leave supporter you should respect the decision taken by the majority. If these extremely dangerous fools have their way we will sleepwalk into a very scary place, were a democratic mandate can be overthrown by a government who disagree's with it and a rabble like group of protesters. Just remember that if you support these insane anti democracy protesters, you'll have no cause to complain when the government ignore your vote for anything in the future if you voted the "incorrect" way.

Their a bunch of middle class students mate. Their less dangerous than a fly

 

[Efcjake]

Now, in your last paragraph, you imply laziness is the root cause. I give up.

The barriers in place for working class people to overcome in this country are massive. It's bloody hard, and they can't always be overcome by graft.

Not laziness. A lack of desire and the dedication needed to follow through with it. You can call it laziness if you like.