Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Khalekan]

I've travelled to Northern Ireland 12 times in the last two years, never once been asked for my passport not any ID.

There ya go.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

No I haven't. I can only repeat what the rules say. UK and Irish citizens need to carry photo ID and be prepared to prove nationality when travelling between UK and Ireland/NI. Other nationalities need to carry passports and visas if required. Often the carrier company will undertake the role of checking the ID which is why I included the words "at some stage" in my post.

If you have somehow managed to travel back and forth to Ireland without ever showing your ID and proving your nationality, I have to question our countries security arrangements.

However none of this alters the fact that we don't have open borders for none UK/Irish nationalities coming into mainland UK from NI, which is what you originally said. Whether we need to tighten them is a different matter.

Plenty of evidence has now been furnished to prove that that is just not true. But if it makes you feel happier thinking that you have "taken control" of your borders then carry on believing it.

You should be able to catch any illegal immigrants when they sign on the dole though...

 

[roydo]

Plenty of evidence has now been furnished to prove that that is just not true. But if it makes you feel happier thinking that you have "taken control" of your borders then carry on believing it.

You should be able to catch any illegal immigrants when they sign on the dole though...

He actually isnt wrong. You are advised to have ID, but no one is ever asked for it. So if they had a crackdown, or a new boss at the border wanted to be a tit and start checking folk, if you didnt have ID, chance is you might not be allowed in/out. Thats what I was told to do when I have been over anyrate.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Yes, I have. EU migrants are typically higher educated, more likely to be in work, younger with fewer dependents and less likely to be criminals. That's people we have no control over. All of this is available from the likes of the migration observatory.

An interesting read the migration observatory. Can't see where it says any of the above but that's a different matter.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

He actually isnt wrong. You are advised to have ID, but no one is ever asked for it. So if they had a crackdown, or a new boss at the border wanted to be a tit and start checking folk, if you didnt have ID, chance is you might not be allowed in/out. Thats what I was told to do when I have been over anyrate.

Yes mate, but checking your id is not necessarily checking your Nationality status if you can show a driving licence. I fail to see how we are checking a person's country of origin/citizenship status in these circumstances.

 

[roydo]

Yes mate, but checking your id is not necessarily checking your Nationality status if you can show a driving licence. I fail to see how we are checking a person's country of origin/citizenship status in these circumstances.

Its a bit of a pointless argument really. The other lad said the rules are that you have to have ID, which is correct, but in practice, no one ever asks for it. If that ever changes, not a clue.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

He actually isnt wrong. You are advised to have ID, but no one is ever asked for it. So if they had a crackdown, or a new boss at the border wanted to be a tit and start checking folk, if you didnt have ID, chance is you might not be allowed in/out. Thats what I was told to do when I have been over anyrate.

Having a rule advising that people should carry ID is completely different to having border controls to check nationality. There cannot be border controls between NI and Britain simply because they are in the same country, so his claim that there are no open borders for people travelling from NI to Britain is patently nonsense.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Having a rule advising that people should carry ID is completely different to having border controls to check nationality. There cannot be border controls between NI and Britain simply because they are in the same country, so his claim that there are no open borders for people travelling from NI to Britain is patently nonsense.

Correct

 

[roydo]

Having a rule advising that people should carry ID is completely different to having border controls to check nationality. There cannot be border controls between NI and Britain simply because they are in the same country, so his claim that there are no open borders for people travelling from NI to Britain is patently nonsense.

I am late to this, but unless I have misread your post, I dont really understand that bit.

Like I said, late to this.

Incidently, I asked a few Leavers how they reckoned the border issue could be squared off about 2 years ago. Still waiting it seems.

edit. Ignore me. It reads perfectly. I am an idiot.

 

[Jebus_lives]

He actually isnt wrong. You are advised to have ID, but no one is ever asked for it. So if they had a crackdown, or a new boss at the border wanted to be a tit and start checking folk, if you didnt have ID, chance is you might not be allowed in/out. Thats what I was told to do when I have been over anyrate.

It's just not enforced and all the discussion post Brexit is that it will remain the same.

And I'm not sure how you could actually enforce it without being discriminatory.

 

[vagant59]

Yes mate, but checking your id is not necessarily checking your Nationality status if you can show a driving licence. I fail to see how we are checking a person's country of origin/citizenship status in these circumstances.

That driving licence has to be British,otherwise you would be required to show your passport

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

That driving licence has to be British,otherwise you would be required to show your passport

IS

Is that right? Where does it say that? Can you link me up mate? Cheers

 

[Bruce Wayne]

An interesting read the migration observatory. Can't see where it says any of the above but that's a different matter.

There isn't one analysis that provides all of it, but if you look around it will come together. I guess the question is, why did you come to your conclusion before looking at things like this? Why did so many come to the conclusion that immigration needs to be massively reduced?

UK Public Opinion toward Immigration: Overall Attitudes and Level of Concern - Migration Observatory

This briefing provides an overview of attitudes toward immigration in Britain.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

 

[Barnfred 55]

There isn't one analysis that provides all of it, but if you look around it will come together. I guess the question is, why did you come to your conclusion before looking at things like this? Why did so many come to the conclusion that immigration needs to be massively reduced?

UK Public Opinion toward Immigration: Overall Attitudes and Level of Concern - Migration Observatory

This briefing provides an overview of attitudes toward immigration in Britain.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

I don't know why you have brought the highlighted bit into this discussion. I have already said twice that I don't agree with numeric targets for immigration or said that immigration needs to be reduced. I have always said it should be based on needs. Also, I read about a third of the articles on the migration observatory website, and chose the articles whose title indicated that it may contain the information I was looking for. I didn't find any of it. I'm not saying it isn't there but after reading about 10 immigration articles back to back I'd had enough for one night.

But let's get back to my view on immigration that you obviously have such an issue with. For me there are basically three types of immigration. People coming into the UK to study, asylum seekers, and people coming here to work. The first group bring a lot of income into the country, and in particular the Universities purses, and I believe this should be encouraged as much as possible. The second is a social obligation of the country IMO, but who and how many is best left for a different discussion. The third is where you seem to have a big issue with me.

My belief here is that it should be structured to meet demand, whether that be for managerial, professional, skilled, semi skilled or manual. If positions can't be filled from people already resident in the UK then they need to be brought in from overseas. Employers should be able to bring in the best people suited to those jobs, wherever they come from. At the moment, there are restrictions on how many none EU working visas are issued each year and I don't think this is fair. I think I used the phrase it should be based on ability to do the job rather than where you are from.

You then started asking me for the evidence on which I based my opinion. I didn't know where you were coming from as to me, it was just a belief based common sense and a matter of fairness. I hadn't based it on any facts per se. Just give the job to the best person no mater where you happen to be born.

So then you gave me your evidence on which you based your opinion. And I quote "Yes, I have. EU migrants are typically higher educated, more likely to be in work, younger with fewer dependents and less likely to be criminals. That's people we have no control over"

What's the difference in what you put there to racial profiling?. Even if that information is factually correct, which I have doubts over as the vast majority of the non EU migrants are either students or asylum seekers, just the fact that you are openly saying those things is wrong. If I, as a leave voter, had posted something along the same lines, I'd have been lynch mobbed in here. It's been bad enough suggesting that non UK and Irish citizens are supposed to show their passports when entering mainland UK.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't know why you have brought the highlighted bit into this discussion. I have already said twice that I don't agree with numeric targets for immigration or said that immigration needs to be reduced. I have always said it should be based on needs. Also, I read about a third of the articles on the migration observatory website, and chose the articles whose title indicated that it may contain the information I was looking for. I didn't find any of it. I'm not saying it isn't there but after reading about 10 immigration articles back to back I'd had enough for one night.

But let's get back to my view on immigration that you obviously have such an issue with. For me there are basically three types of immigration. People coming into the UK to study, asylum seekers, and people coming here to work. The first group bring a lot of income into the country, and in particular the Universities purses, and I believe this should be encouraged as much as possible. The second is a social obligation of the country IMO, but who and how many is best left for a different discussion. The third is where you seem to have a big issue with me.

My belief here is that it should be structured to meet demand, whether that be for managerial, professional, skilled, semi skilled or manual. If positions can't be filled from people already resident in the UK then they need to be brought in from overseas. Employers should be able to bring in the best people suited to those jobs, wherever they come from. At the moment, there are restrictions on how many none EU working visas are issued each year and I don't think this is fair. I think I used the phrase it should be based on ability to do the job rather than where you are from.

You then started asking me for the evidence on which I based my opinion. I didn't know where you were coming from as to me, it was just a belief based common sense and a matter of fairness. I hadn't based it on any facts per se. Just give the job to the best person no mater where you happen to be born.

So then you gave me your evidence on which you based your opinion. And I quote "Yes, I have. EU migrants are typically higher educated, more likely to be in work, younger with fewer dependents and less likely to be criminals. That's people we have no control over"

What's the difference in what you put there to racial profiling?. Even if that information is factually correct, which I have doubts over as the vast majority of the non EU migrants are either students or asylum seekers, just the fact that you are openly saying those things is wrong. If I, as a leave voter, had posted something along the same lines, I'd have been lynch mobbed in here. It's been bad enough suggesting that non UK and Irish citizens are supposed to show their passports when entering mainland UK.

It's not racial profiling at all, it's saying that the government are the worst people to decide whether someone can or cannot move somewhere, and my evidence is that when the government butt out, then the outcome is actually better than whey they stick their oar in.

I'll gladly admit, with my in-laws having lived through a time where you had to ask the state's permission to even leave the country, much less work elsewhere, the freedom to live, work and enjoy your life in 28 countries around Europe without having to ask anyone's permission to do so is one of the most beautiful freedoms of the 20th century. The fact that this is also beneficial to both host and destination countries (not to mention the individuals themselves) only adds to that beauty.

This notion that the state can 'plan' the workforce is as bonkers as believing they can 'plan' the economy. That's been clearly debunked, yet this myth that someone in Whitehall can control the labour market endures.