Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Walken]

 

[Barnfred 55]

Except that you won't have any control because (we are told) after Brexit you will have an open unmanned land border with the EU enabling anyone from an EU country who wishes to enter the UK to do so at will.

This is the problem with the Brexiteers' arguments and why they are shot down in this thread; they are based on contradictions, fantasies, and blatant lies.

What an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Firstly, the open border relates to Northern Ireland. Anybody trying to enter the mainland UK from Northern Ireland will need to go through border controls. Secondly, the vast majority of people crossing that border will either be British (Northern Irish) or Irish. Seeing as post Brexit (deal or no deal) Irish people can continue to live and work in the UK without any restrictions, I really don't see that as a problem. You are making out that there'll be loads queuing up to sneak into the UK via the back door. And thirdly, the open border is there for your benefit FFS, and you're using it as a stick to beat us with.

You need to look in the mirror whilst reading your last sentence mate.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Firstly, there has been no suggestion from either the government or from leave voters that they want immigration to remain at current levels, but that 'rest of the world' migrants make up a larger share. Tens of thousands has been the constantly repeated figure, which all facets of industry, science and academia have said would be madness.
I actually said in my post that immigration targets should not be based on numbers or percentages but on needs. I agree those targets are ridiculous
Secondly, migrants from the rest of the world currently make up around half of total migration, which doesn't suggest that there are severe restrictions being placed on their numbers, but by all means share what you believe the restrictions to be, and what you would like those restrictions reduced to (free movement for all perhaps?)
But they include non EU students that bring in a huge amount of income to our Universities and also all of the asylum seekers. There are restrictions on none EU nationals looking to come to this country to work whether you believe it or not. I would rather see us have a system whereby we have immigration based on what they can do rather than where they are from.
Thirdly, we have had several years actual data that allows us to compare 'managed/controlled' migration versus free movement where the government don't meddle at all. On what metric are you basing your view that the managed kind is in any way better (either on a humane level or a practical level) than free movement?
I have a hangover and can't even get my head around what you are asking. I'll pass on this one.


Sorry, I know you would like to just post stuff and have no one challenge them.

Making some throwaway comment that people voted to leave the EU because they didn't like people speaking Polish in their local Tesco store is just downright offensive Bruce. But if it get's a few laughs from your cronies on here that's just fine eh.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Making some throwaway comment that people voted to leave the EU because they didn't like people speaking Polish in their local Tesco store is just downright offensive Bruce. But if it get's a few laughs from your cronies on here that's just fine eh.

That was an actual remark from a poster on here so I only wish it were a throwaway remark. Regarding your question, you make the claim that the government can control immigration effectively and therefore manage who comes in based upon the needs of academia, industry and so on. My contention is that's a crazy thing to assume and harks back to the Soviet controlled economy days. My last question attempted to pull that out, as we've had many years now of data to compare the 'managed' migration of non-EU citizens and the 'un-managed' migration of EU citizens. It should be pretty easy to tell how effective both have been, be it on education levels, employment levels, age, crime, whatever metric you choose to use. I mean you must surely have based your strong belief on this kind of evidence, so hangover or not, it shouldn't be that hard to dig out

 

[Bruce Wayne]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And Jeremy Hunt basically just said that a 2nd vote would inevitably result in Brexit being canned. Will of the people Jeremy, will of the people.

 

[Jebus_lives]

But we’re smaller than the EU and US who I assume we do the majority of our trade with.

Correct. Largest and second largest market in the world.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Absolute fraud

 

[tim cahill]

So Davis is basically still holding out for the fantasy ‘unicorn’ Brexit that isn’t possible.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So Davis is basically still holding out for the fantasy ‘unicorn’ Brexit that isn’t possible.

He wants a Brexit where he tells the EU what he wants and they submit to his demands.

He's an utter fraud.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

What an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Firstly, the open border relates to Northern Ireland. Anybody trying to enter the mainland UK from Northern Ireland will need to go through border controls. Secondly, the vast majority of people crossing that border will either be British (Northern Irish) or Irish. Seeing as post Brexit (deal or no deal) Irish people can continue to live and work in the UK without any restrictions, I really don't see that as a problem. You are making out that there'll be loads queuing up to sneak into the UK via the back door. And thirdly, the open border is there for your benefit FFS, and you're using it as a stick to beat us with.

You need to look in the mirror whilst reading your last sentence mate.

Absolute fantasy. There are no border controls between NI and 'mainland UK' and there won't be any after Brexit. Anyone from the EU can walk into the UK after Brexit by crossing the Irish border.

These are lies and contradictions as already stated. Get your facts right before telling others to look in the mirror.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Absolute fantasy. There are no border controls between NI and 'mainland UK' and there won't be any after Brexit. Anyone from the EU can walk into the UK after Brexit by crossing the Irish border.

These are lies and contradictions as already stated. Get your facts right before telling others to look in the mirror.

And even that's a nonsense really as the people we want to come here will go somewhere much easier instead. It'll be the dodgy buggers who would go to that kind of length. It's a bit like the trade stuff. With visas etc. sure people can still come here, just as companies can trade with tariffs or regulatory barriers. The thing is, it's a global marketplace so they will prefer to go where those barriers don't exist.

That will largely mean talented people swerving the UK.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Absolute fantasy. There are no border controls between NI and 'mainland UK' and there won't be any after Brexit. Anyone from the EU can walk into the UK after Brexit by crossing the Irish border.

These are lies and contradictions as already stated. Get your facts right before telling others to look in the mirror.

• Immigration (Control of Entry via Ireland) Order 1972
• UK Immigration Act 1971
• Common Travel Area (CTA) https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...and-irish-citizens-if-there-is-no-brexit-deal
• https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2012-11-27/#WRU03250
• http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament...eed-Report-UK-EU-Future-Relations.pdf#page=20 'minimal or non existent border control's
• https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267511/cta1.pdf#page=4 'Operation Gull' As a part of the Common Travel Area (CTA) the Irish/ UK land border means that these routes are susceptible to abuse and known nexus points for illegal migrants moving between Great Britain and the Irish Republic using the Irish land border and Northern Ireland as a route of illegal entry.

 

[Barnfred 55]

That was an actual remark from a poster on here so I only wish it were a throwaway remark

If that's the case I take it back. Comments like that do not represent the average person in the street who voted to leave.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Absolute fantasy. There are no border controls between NI and 'mainland UK' and there won't be any after Brexit. Anyone from the EU can walk into the UK after Brexit by crossing the Irish border.

These are lies and contradictions as already stated. Get your facts right before telling others to look in the mirror.

There are border controls at all UK ports and airports. Anybody from GB and Ireland are free to come and go, but would normally be asked to show passport or some ID at some stage to prove you are in fact British or Irish. Because of the open border in Ireland, those rules also apply to flights and ferries from NI.

Anybody not from UK or Ireland will need to show their passport (plus visa if required) on entering mainland UK.