Current Affairs EU In or Out

[orchard]

I would be very concerned about a trade deal with US that lowered our animal welfare/food standards

-and also demanded we didn't make a distinction on the packaging?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Another 33 million flushed down the toilet because of Brexit. #winning.

 

[Barnfred 55]

May's deal isn't a deal, as the video aptly explained. That is largely still to be negotiated. It covers the Irish backstop, which isn't really something that interests me a great deal. This is merely the first part of a long journey, with the Irish border the main sticking point.

Opponents to the deal have disagreed with the backstop, but also the fact that for the 2 year negotiating window, Britain would abide by rules it has no say in. Of course that would be nice, but I've never regarded the EU as out to shaft us like most Brexiters so the sovereignty argument was never an issue for me. I'm also not sure what people really expected to be any different?

It also covers the final 'divorce settlement', which again, if Britain is to maintain any kind of international reputation should, and is as per the May deal, a foregone conclusion.

By all means check it out for yourself though - https://assets.publishing.service.g..._and_the_European_Atomic_Energy_Community.pdf

I get all that Bruce. What I didn't understand is your lack of interest in the backstop, as that is the fall back position that we will enter if a trade deal can't be agreed. The EU have indeed conceded more than the UK with this, in my opinion, and it's probably as good a compromise as we are likely to get as a fall back. But I don't think this has been explained to the UK population well enough because everybody in the press and in politics are playing to their own agenda. Even the Government isn't doing enough to sell it to the masses. They are concentrating on selling it to MPs because it is their votes that are needed, but most of these have their own agendas as I said.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Honestly? It's ok by me. It is how democracy ought to work if we are not leaving it to the elected representatives to decide. I don't think those who campaigned for 40 years to leave the EEC and EU regarded the 1975 referendum as decisive, did they? It should end with political parties standing for leave or remain - to accept or reject whatever is what HMG says is the best deal available, or to take the Russian roulette no deal option - and that's your lot.

Fair do's.

I just feel that all it will do is prolong the issue for years to come. As I've said numerous times, I actually wish all of this never happened, but now it has there is no going back. The country is divided. The two extremes, whether it be leave with no deal or remain, will only feed that divide and the country will become a toxic environment where nobody with any sense will want to invest.

For me, the only way forward whereby people may be prepared to put things behind them will be a compromise in the form of a soft Brexit, even though few will be happy with the deal itself.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Have the ERG now officially dropped its no deal desire? I would prefer Brexiteer to answer but happy for an answer from other remainers.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I honestly don't see why they should have offered extra concessions to Cameron when he couldn't even be bothered to implement the current rules to begin with. Always concessions/opt-outs etc, people are/were very tired of the constant British particularism. Sometimes enough is enough. I dare you; pick out a random European regulation and try and see if there is a British opt-out or similar. Now he wanted concessions for his party politics etc. The referendum (or something similar) was predicted, some just didn't want to see it. The backstop is a good deal btw; a lot of things in there that aren't exactly in the interest of the E.U either - so dragging it out isn't very likely. Those senior European politicians were just translating what people are thinking. Come on now, if you're confronted with people who lie/display various degrees of incompetence during a long period of time you're going to say something crude too.

And this is coming from a European; borderline federalist. I'm going to London tomorrow, if somebody there asks me what I think about Brexit I'm going to say something similar (remain isn't sustainable/there is no broad support for that/pick another option). Seriously no hard feelings, but it just wouldn't work.

The bickering Brits starting to get to you mate?lol

Seriously though, I can understand why Europeans will be getting fed up with Brexit just as much as we are in the UK.

Have I understood your last sentence correctly. Do you really feel that the UK staying in the EU is now not sustainable from a EU perspective?. If so, is that a general feeling over there or just your personal view. Are you aware of any ill feelings towards Brits living and working on the continent?

As regards your opening comments, the UK has never been as committed to the EU as the majority of member states on the continent. For a long time there has been a general feeling amongst many Brits that we are getting short changed and there has been pressure on governments to get concessions. I've only ever looked at it from our perspective but yeah, I can see why continental Europeans would take exception to it. I suppose it comes down to how much the EU value our membership and maybe we're just not as important to you as we thought we were.

 

[davids]

I'm not saying they have been equally at fault, but they can't be totally exonerated either.

They could have prevented the referendum altogether had they shown more sympathy/empathy to Cameron's request for concessions. From memory what he was asking for wasn't that excessive. The problem was, I think, nobody expected the people to vote to leave. Had they thought this was a real threat I'm sure they would have been more accommodating.

Secondly their insistence on sorting out the divorce settlement first before even starting discussing on future agreements. Even if they didn't want to discuss together there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't have been holding separate talks simultaneously.

Also, some of the comments and statements coming from senior European politicians have stoked the ill feeling that many Britains towards the EU.

These are just off the top of my head mate. As I say, I'm not trying to lay all of the blame with them.

The EU are just being realistic,the club has quite a few disgruntled members.So they were never going to let leaving look like a good option.Maybe the UK politicos might have given that a passing thought.

 

[davids]

Surprised to hear this from an ardent Remainer as it is the only reason why Brexit hasn't been agreed yet.

'Maintaining cross-border cooperation, supporting the all-island economy and protecting the Good Friday peace agreement.'

Those are the reasons why it is an even bigger deal for us in Ireland than it is for you in the UK.

Pity that bit wasn't thought through,pretty obvious you can't enforce any freedom of movement legislation when there is an open border....but then I think they knew that all along!

 

[Barnfred 55]

Have the ERG now officially dropped its no deal desire? I would prefer Brexiteer to answer but happy for an answer from other remainers.

No idea mate. We don't even know half the people who are in it never mind what they are thinking. I also don't think they operate as a group as such, I think they will vote and act as individuals. I also believe it likely that some of them were never in favour of no deal in the first place, just in favour of keeping it on the table as a bargaining tool. The real hard line Brexiteers will probably still believe that No deal is a viable option I would have thought.

As things stand I don't think it's that important anyway as I can't envisage a No Deal being passed by parliament. I think where the ERG may be relevant is whether they will vote for Mays deal, because in this they could actually make a difference. Personally I think they will be split, but that will probably be enough to defeat the motion, unless May can get some Labour votes on board as I don't think all Labour MPs support a second referendum.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The EU are just being realistic,the club has quite a few disgruntled members.So they were never going to let leaving look like a good option.Maybe the UK politicos might have given that a passing thought.

Yeah, but that doesn't change my original point that the EU are partially to blame for the current situation though.

Who were you referring to when using the term politicos by the way. Not a term I've come across before part from the journal.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Pity that bit wasn't thought through,pretty obvious you can't enforce any freedom of movement legislation when there is an open border....but then I think they knew that all along!

You live in Spain don't you? What's the situation with the Gibraltar border. I'd have thought we'd have needed special arrangements there too as I know a lot of Spanish work there and cross in and out daily.

 

[davids]

You live in Spain don't you? What's the situation with the Gibraltar border. I'd have thought we'd have needed special arrangements there too as I know a lot of Spanish work there and cross in and out daily.

I've a friend who works there,her commute can be 45m to 6 hours depends on how awkward the Spanish are feeling,been that way for years.

 

[Fedlingen]

You live in Spain don't you? What's the situation with the Gibraltar border. I'd have thought we'd have needed special arrangements there too as I know a lot of Spanish work there and cross in and out daily.

Unlike the UK, Gibraltar is not part of the EU's customs union. So there are more checks on goods moving over the Spanish-Gibraltar border, and Gibraltar can set lower taxes on its imports and exports.

Gibraltar just need a deal to secure workers crossing, not goods.

 

[davids]

Yeah, but that doesn't change my original point that the EU are partially to blame for the current situation though.

Who were you referring to when using the term politicos by the way. Not a term I've come across before part from the journal.

My reference was those playing at politics,usually for their own gain,either monetary or profile driven.My point is the EU are doing exactly what you would expect of them given their current circumstances.And that HMG should really have thought that through before calling the referendum.But then they were concerned by the prospect of UKIP crashing their party....and Boris did say it would be easy.

 

[davids]

Unlike the UK, Gibraltar is not part of the EU's customs union. So there are more checks on goods moving over the Spanish-Gibraltar border, and Gibraltar can set lower taxes on its imports and exports.

Gibraltar just need a deal to secure workers crossing, not goods.

Gibraltar Border Queue

Gibraltar Border Queue. 4,081 likes · 11 talking about this. What is the Gibraltar border queue like? Keeping you updated with both sides of the border

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