Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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It’s worth noting that the DUP are back tracking on their initial position of no backstop at all. Now they are hinting at accepting a time bound backstop and over the next week watch them roll over completely and fall in behind May. Even they now realise that their hard Brexit stance is completely at odds with local business leaders and especially farmers who do form a substantial block of their vote.

My initial point was more that in all of the economic discussion surrounding Brexit, the backstop was insignificant as it just didn’t register in the minds of many outside of Ireland.
I don't even pretend to know enough about NI politics to get involved in it. But my understanding that the only significant difference between being a member of the customs union (which the UK will be) and being a member of the customs union and the single market (which NI will be) is the free movement of people which is required to ensure no hard border.

Given the DUP also desire and open border (I think) is it not worth this small deviation from policy?
 
I don't even pretend to know enough about NI politics to get involved in it. But my understanding that the only significant difference between being a member of the customs union (which the UK will be) and being a member of the customs union and the single market (which NI will be) is the free movement of people which is required to ensure no hard border.

Given the DUP also desire and open border (I think) is it not worth this small deviation from policy?
In a nut shell, the DUP are on the verge of losing their place as the largest party in NI. Their Brexit stance has threatened to alienate so much of their core support that they have no option but to switch position now.

Their stance was purely constitutional based whereas it is economic concerns from its vote base that is forcing their back tracking.
 
I don't even pretend to know enough about NI politics to get involved in it. But my understanding that the only significant difference between being a member of the customs union (which the UK will be) and being a member of the customs union and the single market (which NI will be) is the free movement of people which is required to ensure no hard border.

Given the DUP also desire and open border (I think) is it not worth this small deviation from policy?
Don't believe everything you hear from S.A. Tache & Co. They wanted the border sealed completely up until about 20 years ago. They were against the GFA until they realised that they could achieve power through it. They only agreed to the bare minimum of all-island co-operation because as a governing party they are obliged to do so under the terms of the GFA. Their claim about wanting an open border is shallow; as far as they are concerned the more barriers between North and South the better as that enhances the continuity of Partition.

If they were really interested in the betterment of NI they would have accepted the initial backstop position (before it was amended at Teresa May's request to include the whole of the UK), which would have kept NI in the Single Market even though it had left the EU, giving it a unique advantage in terms of trade. But no, their precious union came first. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.
 
OK, maybe I am being a bit touchy. But I'm not a wum like Pete or a die hard leaver like Joey, I'm somebody who believes it isn't all black and white and post in here looking for genuine discussion on what has become a very sorry situation. I'm even happy to be proved wrong on things. So I get a bit wound up when my points get summarily dismissed or ridiculed.

In this regard, I believe Cameron was quite entitled to approach the EU for concessions. There has been a growing belief in this country that we don't get a fair deal from the EU, partly stoked by elements of the press admittedly, but still many believed they were valid claims. We are the EUs third biggest contributor, around 15% I believe, of which we receive less than a third back towards UK projects. UK citizens only make up around 4% of the EU total employment, of which less than 1% is actually domiciled in the UK. So many people would argue that we were entitled to some extra concessions. As regards the concessions themselves, I remember reading at the time that they agreed some and not others, I don't know whether they hade done enough or not, but the important thing was David Cameron, and he obviously thought not otherwise he wouldn't have invoked the referendum. It was in this where he was wrong in my opinion. He dangled this carrot of a referendum to make sure the Tories won the 2015 election, without knowing whether or not the EU would agree to the concessions he was requesting. It was reckless.

As regards your factual errors, my post that you first responded to posed the question why so many MPs were against the May deal when the backdrop meant that the UK would be in the customs union. You advised me that this only applied to Northern Ireland and not the whole UK . I've since found out that it does apply to all of the UK. NI would also be part of the single market so there could be free movement across the border. But all the UK would continue to trade free within the EC and we would be subject to EU laws relating to this and not able to negotiate our own trade deals with other nations.

I should've clarified. The EU proposal for a backstop was exactly as I said. May's subsequent idea, to appease the DUP, will keep the UK in the CU Until it finalises it's eu trade deal. Both proposals, as you say, will leave NI in the single market.

May's backstop is mere can- kicking. The EU backstop proposal allows for the hardest of hard brexits to occur without need for an Irish hard border.

Have you read a summary of what concessions the US want in a trade deal? We should be grateful if the EU rules spare us those.
 
Boris Johnson is on a EU charm offensive in India it seems...

Mr Johnson told the Indian audience that Brexit was misunderstood by those who say it is an "xenophobic, nationalistic and reactionary phenomenon."
"My objection to the EU was not that it was run by foreigners. The problem is we don't really know who is running it," Johnson said, mocking the five presidents of the EU commission, council of ministers, parliament and other bodies. "I couldn't tell you who they are, or what they do or how they came by their jobs or how they may be removed from office. "I have no idea how to kick those particular bastards out"...

And people wonder what inspired Tusk's recent "place in hell" comment..

He’s right though....
 
He’s right though....
If only he could go and read the Treaty on the European Union (Article 17 if you're interested) or the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (again if you're interested Articles 244-250), or he actually used his parliamentary computer for research and went here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/governance-in-the-commission_en

Considering you hate 'lazy posters', you must be furious about a paid politician, formerly foreign Secretary, who can't be arsed to do the most basic research.
 
If only he could go and read the Treaty on the European Union (Article 17 if you're interested) or the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (again if you're interested Articles 244-250), or he actually used his parliamentary computer for research and went here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/governance-in-the-commission_en

Considering you hate 'lazy posters', you must be furious about a paid politician, formerly foreign Secretary, who can't be arsed to do the most basic research.

He was playing to the gallery for clowns like himself. An utter embarrassment to our nation.
 
Apologies for the source, but one insider on Reddit made an interesting point:

Everyone I know in there was basically pressganged into being a Dexy. Nobody wants to be associated with it and nobody in the department believes it will be a success apart from the ministers.

Mainly due to their actual experience in the various sectors - but then again, what do experts know?

 
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