Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Jebus_lives]

Its gone tribal now neither side really listens to the other anymore or really discusses the issues with each other, mostly a load of soundbites and cheap media reactions.
No deal , well that shows how wedded politicians are to there own dogma both here and the EU rather than for the common good of people on both sides of the channel.
I know he isn't popular but thought Tom Watson spoke well on the issue yesterday, wants to remain but realized there are reasons that people voted out and wanted to address them going forward, first person for a while that didn't just say remain or stay and offered a way forward in his argument.

I said as much in this thread recently, suggesting that on both sides Brexit has become a distraction and entrenched.

The reply I got was 'you like to blame Brexit for everything!'

 

[Sharpattack]

Looks to me like Brexit deferred. Brexit deferred means Brexit dead. No way the UK leaves the EU if Brexit is deferred.

 

[Jebus_lives]

The ERG wouldn't be happy with anything Bruce no matter what was on the table.
EU are trying to keep the union together first and foremost , don't blame them its only natural, and it must be truly frustrating trying to get a deal out of somebody that really doesn't know what they want half the time, well most of the time really.
Parliament should have got behind trying to find a UK stance from the day after the vote and agreed on it cross party basis before article 50 was invoked, instead the majority of them jumped to lets go out without a deal or lets stop brexit camps and any common sense went out the window.

As you've alluded to here, the policy is 'leave', but it's hard to build strategy for this when so many want wildly different outcomes.

 

[Barnfred 55]

What I don't get about this 'meaningful vote' is that it's 7 days until we're supposed to leave. Surely there is waaay more legislation that would need to be passed off the back of that vote than could be passed in that 7 (5 days essentially) window?

Think it's a bit longer than 7 days Bruce, but it's still a valid point you raise just the same.

To be honest, nothing this lady does surprises me anymore. I don't think Brexit could have been handled any worse from day 1. It's been a shambles.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Think it's a bit longer than 7 days Bruce, but it's still a valid point you raise just the same.

To be honest, nothing this lady does surprises me anymore. I don't think Brexit could have been handled any worse from day 1. It's been a shambles.

Yes, I corrected myself in a later post. 12 working days.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Yes, I corrected myself in a later post. 12 working days.

Yeah. Just seen it now Bruce.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The ERG wouldn't be happy with anything Bruce no matter what was on the table.
EU are trying to keep the union together first and foremost , don't blame them its only natural, and it must be truly frustrating trying to get a deal out of somebody that really doesn't know what they want half the time, well most of the time really.
Parliament should have got behind trying to find a UK stance from the day after the vote and agreed on it cross party basis before article 50 was invoked, instead the majority of them jumped to lets go out without a deal or lets stop brexit camps and any common sense went out the window.

You have made 3 or 4 posts now that I agree with almost entirely. I can't tell you how good that feels in a thread which has been completely polarised from the outset.

We are now left in a position where we have a deal on the table, one that if adopted will most likely see us stay in some kind of customs union with free movement of people, but no say in how Europe is governed moving forward. So there are 4 likely outcomes. One, we accept that deal. Two, we leave with no deal. Three, we stay in the EC. Four, the deadline passes and none of the first three have happened, so we are basically in limbo.

What a choice. I'm not sure what you think but my view is that whatever happens will be a nightmare. I can't even contemplate leaving with no deal. The only positive I can see in the deal on the table is that it avoids a no deal. And despite what remainers think, the long term impact of staying in the EC will not end well. Over half of the population voted to leave and they will feel let down by Parliament, and I just can't see them accepting the situation and moving on. The country will be divided, it could become a toxic place to live and extreme politics will thrive.

This is where my views are different to yours. You believe remain is better than the deal on the table. Despite the deal being a poor one, I think it represents a compromise by both sides (and I don't mean UK and EC, I'm referring to leavers and remainers), and the only chance we have of avoiding a very toxic future for Britain.

What a mess.lol

For what it's worth, I'm fairly sure a no deal Brexit will be avoided. Very few people in Parliament want it and as the deadline nears somebody will put forward a motion, this time a legally binding one rather than advisory, removing it as an option, and I think this will be passed comfortably. In so doing setting a new precedent for passing laws in Parliament.

I think the most likely outcome is option 4, deadline passes with no decision. EC could play hardball, but I think are more likely to grant an extension to enable either a second referendum or general election to take place, most likely the second because one side or the other needs a majority in Parliament in order to push through their preference to leave or remain.
.

 

[Barnfred 55]

We are incredibly close to leaving with 'no deal', not because it's an option we decided upon or we've surmised that 'it'll be beneficial in the long run' but because we've completely failed to negotiate effectively and compromise in key areas while maintaining that the 'EU will blink first' and 'they're not going to want a no deal when it will damage them so much'.

Pretty certain that as the deadline approaches, Parliament will ensure that no deal is taken off the table. I can't see the Government putting forward that motion but somebody will, and it will be a legally binding one that I think will be passed comfortably.

The impact that has on politics in general going forward should be interesting.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I said as much in this thread recently, suggesting that on both sides Brexit has become a distraction and entrenched.

The reply I got was 'you like to blame Brexit for everything!'

I'd have given it a like if I saw that post. The polarisation on here has been my biggest issue since the outset. But it isn't just in here, this is just a symptom of the UK as a whole.

The really sad thing is, whatever happens with Brexit, stay or leave, this isn't going to go away any time soon.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I'd have given it a like if I saw that post. The polarisation on here has been my biggest issue since the outset. But it isn't just in here, this is just a symptom of the UK as a whole.

The really sad thing is, whatever happens with Brexit, stay or leave, this isn't going to go away any time soon.

I think you're right. Which is precisely why it can't simply fall into a 'Brexit: leave vs Remain' standoff. If you want to address the cause of the division you need to look beyond it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think you're right. Which is precisely why it can't simply fall into a 'Brexit: leave vs Remain' standoff. If you want to address the cause of the division you need to look beyond it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There must be a rule whereby only idiots can phone in to radio shows. "I'm not a racist, but all those foreigners coming here and destroying our hospitals..." One even rang in and said all of our problems are because of the A8 nations, whose men have a predilection for beating their wives. I mean ffs.

 

[peteblue]

Institute of Directors hits out at fresh Brexit vote delay

Businesses have lost faith in the political process, the Institute of Directors warned as research revealed that confidence in the service sector is sinking at its fastest pace since the financial crisis.Responding to the government’s decision to delay a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal until as l

www.thetimes.co.uk

Institute of Directors becoming increasingly more vocal about the implications of 'No Deal'

As a Member of the IoD, I can only say that it is some members, not all.......

 

[davids]

Puppet of the far Right looking for a crash out.If anyone wasn't aware by now,this should make it crystal.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Are you seriously suggesting over 17 million people voted to leave the EC because if Russian interference Bruce?lol