Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Bit ironic that coming from a die hard Tory.

The elite are on all sides of the political spectrum.....

 

[peteblue]

Maybe the golden oldie generation can take to the streets about it.

The golden oldies will use their brains......

 

[neil999]

The elite are on all sides of the political spectrum.....

This is very true, which is why i dont understand why it is used as a political argument...particularly by those who are part of the elite(however that is defined...money?)

 

[edge]

We had that party before in UKIP. It was never really a huge force in politics and the knee jerk reaction with Cameron essentially pandering to there small voter base will (hopefully) be a cautionary tale for years to come. Even UKIP itself isn’t the force it once was with its divnce into right wing tin foil hat territory and missing the showmanship of Farage. Tommy Robinson and his ilk will get nowhere near to influencing mainstream politics, the BNP had a crack at it, but always remained on the outside and that was arguably at a more contentious time in terms of global and national resentment towards Muslims.

With a number of statements that have been made over the past few days, I believe that a number of politicians are actually now putting themselves in the firing line to prevent Brexit, whether that’s Pete’s list of ‘traitors’ or comments made by a number of Labour MPs that suggest there’s a consensus that something deeper and more meaningful needs to be done. I do think Corbyn has a fear of what you’ve described, hence his inflexibility, but it seems party lines are being swept aside and Parliament is trying to solve this mess rather than be sheep led to slaughter.

It will not be UKIP there a busted flush, suspect it will be new party or sadly a Tory clever enough to put himself/ herself as a man of the people anti establishment , taking the party in another direction, ( bit ironic Tory anti establishment I know)
The problems that led to the vote haven't gone away if we stay in , now you will have the added fuel to the fire of people winning a vote and it not being implemented.
The parties should have worked together at the start of this to get a different outcome , now it's only to stop brexit nothing else people can dress it up anyway they like that's the outcome, most leavers like myself have been expecting it to happen , now it's come to fruition.
I will never vote Tory even if it plays out the way I suspect but I think a large proportion of people would , and don't forget it's the very people in that age group your talking about that actually go out and votes traditionally in large numbers so it's not easily discounted.
In or out the country is heading for a rocky few years politically.

 

[peteblue]

Oh dear, Michael Porter thinks Brexiters are engaging in wishful thinking - https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/the-uk-needs-a-bold-competitive-strategy-to-survive-brexit?cid=wk-rss



Although, he does outline some real failings in the government in boosting competitiveness. It's just a shame that, as usual, the EU has been the scapegoat.

You missed this bit out......something I’ve been requesting for some time now.....

“Remainers, on the other hand, have spent little time explaining what the UK can do better within the European Union to address the very real competitiveness challenges Great Britain’s economy is facing. While they have rightly pointed out the costs of leaving the EU, citizens have not heard a forward-looking plan on how the country could leverage EU membership more effectively in the future, if the country would decide to stay.”......

 

[peteblue]

It will not be UKIP there a busted flush, suspect it will be new party or sadly a Tory clever enough to put himself/ herself as a man of the people anti establishment , taking the party in another direction, ( bit ironic Tory anti establishment I know)
The problems that led to the vote haven't gone away if we stay in , now you will have the added fuel to the fire of people winning a vote and it not being implemented.
The parties should have worked together at the start of this to get a different outcome , now it's only to stop brexit nothing else people can dress it up anyway they like that's the outcome, most leavers like myself have been expecting it to happen , now it's come to fruition.
I will never vote Tory even if it plays out the way I suspect but I think a large proportion of people would , and don't forget it's the very people in that age group your talking about that actually go out and votes traditionally in large numbers so it's not easily discounted.
In or out the country is heading for a rocky few years politically.

Yep, UKIP has now become a toxic brand, but a new party of those determined to deliver on the democratic referendum vote would probably win.....

 

[micknick]

So EU will only delay Brexit if there is a second referendum, is this the angle May has been waiting for?!

 

[Harryflashman]

Yep, UKIP has now become a toxic brand, but a new party of those determined to deliver on the democratic referendum vote would probably win.....

I agree with you on UKIP , I think you’re other point is fascinating to be honest . Who would lead it ? I know @Joey66 is labour but happily supports JRM and the like but a lot wouldn’t and I’m sure a more left-leaning pro-Brexit supporter would push away many of the right wing supporters the cause has .

New political parties are hard to organise and despite the obvious significant public support for Brexit I’m unconvinced personally that’d translate to an across the board win . I’m not even convinced a straight fight between the current political parties divided on Brexit lines would lead to that kind of result . I’m not decrying the public interest or even that there is significant support for Brexit just about how that shows in an election .

 

[peteblue]

So EU will only delay Brexit if there is a second referendum, is this the angle May has been waiting for?!

Classic EU, keep voting until they get the result they want.....

 

[Walken]

Because it factual and not Remain biased......

You believe everybody who has a different point of view to your own is simply biased, the irony of this is simply mind blowing

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You missed this bit out......something I’ve been requesting for some time now.....

“Remainers, on the other hand, have spent little time explaining what the UK can do better within the European Union to address the very real competitiveness challenges Great Britain’s economy is facing. While they have rightly pointed out the costs of leaving the EU, citizens have not heard a forward-looking plan on how the country could leverage EU membership more effectively in the future, if the country would decide to stay.”......

I agree, and said as much in my post. For generations, governments have used the EU as a scapegoat to gloss over problems in the way they have governed. Cameron didn't do this as it would require blaming himself, which I suspect few politicians would ever do, but it's been the go to scapegoat for so long. You hinted a few times that you think leaving would remove that as now there would be no choice but to take responsibility, but we've seen even thus far that this isn't true, as people still blame the EU or remainers or George Soros or whomever for their own failings, all whilst no one has done the thing you yourself have asked for from remainers.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yep, UKIP has now become a toxic brand, but a new party of those determined to deliver on the democratic referendum vote would probably win.....

Deliver on the referendum vote? What on earth. The referendum was binary - leave or remain. May's deal would see us leaving, yet you don't support that. Are you an enemy of the people yourself?

 

[tsubaki]

There’s never been a worse time to launch a political party in the UK, as the repeated attempts made by various centrists (though admittedly they are awful anyway) have proved. Both main parties are (for once) actually engaging in semi ideological (though for the Tories that’s largely against something than offering a coherent form of capitalism) struggles and want to ensure the other lot are kept out of power, so any party that exists to pretend of offer normal political activity suffers (as the LDs and even the SNP found out in 2017).

A pure Brexit party would be hilarious, but if it was successful it would put Corbyn into No 10 with a majority of more than a hundred.

Personally I think we are more likely to see the Tories fall victim to entryism rather than anything else; the membership is dying off, there is a bit of a “but what do they actually stand for?” vibe about them politically and the parliamentary party is moribund of any actual talent (or at least the people who might turn things around are nowhere near the top). The only real difference with Labour in 2015 is the lack of a large pool of ex-members willing to rejoin and organise to back a favoured candidate (which is why entryism from another set is more likely with the Tories).

 

[Joey66]

You believe everybody who has a different point of view to your own is simply biased, the irony of this is simply mind blowing

IS that you Mr Bercow what a rat he really is acting like King Richardhead

 

[Joey66]

I agree with you on UKIP , I think you’re other point is fascinating to be honest . Who would lead it ? I know @Joey66 is labour but happily supports JRM and the like but a lot wouldn’t and I’m sure a more left-leaning pro-Brexit supporter would push away many of the right wing supporters the cause has .

New political parties are hard to organise and despite the obvious significant public support for Brexit I’m unconvinced personally that’d translate to an across the board win . I’m not even convinced a straight fight between the current political parties divided on Brexit lines would lead to that kind of result . I’m not decrying the public interest or even that there is significant support for Brexit just about how that shows in an election .

I support the Democratic vote not squabbling MPs who disgraced themselves yesterday.......