Current Affairs EU In or Out

[zzr45]

It’s like the World Cup all over again. Sweep of patriotism, ignoring all logic, Brexit coming home etc. Reading the first day of debate it’s becoming apparent that parliament is ready to have another vote, very good bit from a Labour MP and former Brexiteer admitting it’s all been the fault of politicians. The Grieve amendment has been the first brick out the wall.

 

[peteblue]

There will be absolute mayhem is this obnoxious crew of MP’s overturn the vote to Leave......the elite will have done what they always do and look after themselves.......

 

[zzr45]

There will be absolute mayhem is this obnoxious crew of MP’s overturn the vote to Leave......the elite will have done what they always do and look after themselves.......

Maybe the golden oldie generation can take to the streets about it.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

There will be absolute mayhem is this obnoxious crew of MP’s overturn the vote to Leave......the elite will have done what they always do and look after themselves.......

Bit ironic that coming from a die hard Tory.

 

[edge]

Maybe the golden oldie generation can take to the streets about it.

No they will give there vote to someone clever enough to tap into it there resentment.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There will be absolute mayhem is this obnoxious crew of MP’s overturn the vote to Leave......the elite will have done what they always do and look after themselves.......

The vote was to leave, May's deal will leave. Nowhere did the ballot allow for nuance, nor have you asked for any.

 

[Khalekan]

There will be absolute mayhem is this obnoxious crew of MP’s overturn the vote to Leave......the elite will have done what they always do and look after themselves.......

I am sure Boris Johnson and that Rees Mogg fellow would take exception to you not regarding them as “the elite”, Pete

 

[Khalekan]

There will be absolute mayhem is this obnoxious crew of MP’s overturn the vote to Leave......the elite will have done what they always do and look after themselves.......

Define “absolute mayhem”, Pete.

I hope you are not predicting, nor even countenancing, violence on our streets

After all, you took great exception to Mr. Leo Varadkar and the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland expressing concerns about the possibility of street violence in Ulster as a result of Brexit being forced on the people living along the English imposed border in Ireland.

Are you now predicting and supporting the same thing yourself as commonsense at last breaks out in Westminster?

One can just imagine a motley collection of Old Age Delinquents and BNP types snarling at politicians and chucking bricks at coppers.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh dear, Michael Porter thinks Brexiters are engaging in wishful thinking - https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/the-uk-needs-a-bold-competitive-strategy-to-survive-brexit?cid=wk-rss

The competitive challenges now facing the UK have been made significantly worse by years of inaction. “Our worry is that the UK remains mired in wishful thinking about Brexit,” says Porter, the Bishop William Lawrence University Professor at HBS.

Far from a drag, he argues, being part of Europe was a key competitive advantage for Britain. Its economy benefitted more from EU funding than it contributed, even as a net contributor to the EU budget. Immigration was a positive, not the negative that populist politics asserted. And EU regulations were in step with sound international practice.

Although, he does outline some real failings in the government in boosting competitiveness. It's just a shame that, as usual, the EU has been the scapegoat.

 

[zzr45]

No they will give there vote to someone clever enough to tap into it there resentment.

We had that party before in UKIP. It was never really a huge force in politics and the knee jerk reaction with Cameron essentially pandering to there small voter base will (hopefully) be a cautionary tale for years to come. Even UKIP itself isn’t the force it once was with its divulgence into right wing tin foil hat territory and missing the showmanship of Farage. Tommy Robinson and his ilk will get nowhere near to influencing mainstream politics, the BNP had a crack at it, but always remained on the outside and that was arguably at a more contentious time in terms of global and national resentment towards Muslims.

With a number of statements that have been made over the past few days, I believe that a number of politicians are actually now putting themselves in the firing line to prevent Brexit, whether that’s Pete’s list of ‘traitors’ or comments made by a number of Labour MPs that suggest there’s a consensus that something deeper and more meaningful needs to be done. I do think Corbyn has a fear of what you’ve described, hence his inflexibility, but it seems party lines are being swept aside and Parliament is trying to solve this mess rather than be sheep led to slaughter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Also of note - http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.aau4586 - relatively few people (~9%) shared fake news during the US presidential campaign, but those that did were disproportionately > 65 years of age. They were probably just showing their wisdom and experience

They also found strong partisan divides, with conservatives much more likely to share fake news than liberals, which is good news if you're a lifelong socialist, but does kinda underline the 'fear' based messaging that seems to dominate so much conservative rhetoric.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Also of note - http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.aau4586 - relatively few people (~9%) shared fake news during the US presidential campaign, but those that did were disproportionately > 65 years of age. They were probably just showing their wisdom and experience

They also found strong partisan divides, with conservatives much more likely to share fake news than liberals, which is good news if you're a lifelong socialist, but does kinda underline the 'fear' based messaging that seems to dominate so much conservative rhetoric.

Not sure if it's really been any different with fake news and it's various incarnations down the years. And being a conservative, it is in the same end of political spectrum as the far right and they have always used fear based messenging.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not sure if it's really been any different with fake news and it's various incarnations down the years. And being a conservative, it is in the same end of political spectrum as the far right and they have always used fear based messenging.

I'd say it's pretty relevant given the influence Facebook messaging played in recent election campaigns. The typical tactic of the likes of Russia isn't to use their bot network to create fake news, but rather to amplify it so that it gets seen by more people. There are sadly plenty of people out there trying to distort the debate via an ongoing attack of misinformation.

You see the same with things like vaccines. Data shows that after 'fake news' about the risk of vaccines, it can take around 15 years for vaccination rates to recover, and so we have a situation whereby quite preventable diseases are making a come back in many countries.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh dear, Michael Porter thinks Brexiters are engaging in wishful thinking - https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/the-uk-needs-a-bold-competitive-strategy-to-survive-brexit?cid=wk-rss



Although, he does outline some real failings in the government in boosting competitiveness. It's just a shame that, as usual, the EU has been the scapegoat.

This is pretty important imo, as he points out a number of things Britain (the government) could do to make the country more competitive, but importantly, none of these things needed us to leave the EU to do, and none are helped by us leaving the EU. He's critical of the remain camp for not doing more to play this up, but the problem I see is that for generations it's been easy to blame the EU for things when the problem lies closer to home. For this to happen it would have required Cameron to say his government weren't doing a good enough job, which was never going to happen, hence why they took the approach of focusing on the negative aspects of Brexit rather than how Britain 'can' fix the various things going wrong.

 

[peteblue]

Define “absolute mayhem”, Pete.

I hope you are not predicting, nor even countenancing, violence on our streets

After all, you took great exception to Mr. Leo Varadkar and the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland expressing concerns about the possibility of street violence in Ulster as a result of Brexit being forced on the people living along the English imposed border in Ireland.

Are you now predicting and supporting the same thing yourself as commonsense at last breaks out in Westminster?

One can just imagine a motley collection of Old Age Delinquents and BNP types snarling at politicians and chucking bricks at coppers.

Please don’t attempt to drag me down to your level. I’m talking about political mayhem and resulting loss of business confidence....