Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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orchard said:
Ha, precisely that, viz, playing. The article you posted doesn't deserve much more attention than that, to be absolutely frank.
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Of course it doesn't from a Remain point of view because it shoots down the Remain position quite conclusively and there has been no credible response by Remain to it. So, remain logic is just to ignore or try to sideline, that which they can't argue against.

Not an effective strategy to take into a debate.
 
Wouldn't it be better if everyone from all political view points just stopped calling everyone else a Nazi everytime they disagreed?

Seriously, Anna Soubry isn't a Nazi, nor is Nigel Fararge or Jacob Ress Mog on the other side. Isn't it time that everyone grew up a bit and accepted the fact that you can utterly despise somebody's politics without them being a Nazi or anything similar? This was always going to happen. The word has been so diluted that it barely carries any weight. It's been thrown around and deliberately misused for years so why is this particular incident so bad? It's never acceptable to call somebody a Nazi imo but you can't say it's ok to call one group that but not another. How about we just stopped name calling alltoghter eh?

Name calling is the order of the day. We even have a thread called "scummy Tories" on here. We are a thoroughly uncivil society and until we address how everyone talks to one another I'm not going waste a second of my time feeling sympathy for any politician who has to deal with the consequences of the situation they've helped create.
 
RichardP said:
Of course it doesn't from a Remain point of view because it shoots down the Remain position quite conclusively and there has been no credible response by Remain to it. So, remain logic is just to ignore or try to sideline, that which they can't argue against.

Not an effective strategy to take into a debate.
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Separate schools of logic for remain and leave now? I don't think this is a good way to keep you grounded in reality Rich.
 
orchard said:
Separate schools of logic for remain and leave now? I don't think this is a good way to keep you grounded in reality Rich.
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I have absolutely no idea what you just said or what message you are trying to put across.

See, 'sidelining and ignoring' comments in my previous post.
 
Gwladysstreetlad said:
Wouldn't it be better if everyone from all political view points just stopped calling everyone else a Nazi everytime they disagreed?

Seriously, Anna Soubry isn't a Nazi, nor is Nigel Fararge or Jacob Ress Mog on the other side. Isn't it time that everyone grew up a bit and accepted the fact that you can utterly despise somebody's politics without them being a Nazi or anything similar? This was always going to happen. The word has been so diluted that it barely carries any weight. It's been thrown around and deliberately misused for years so why is this particular incident so bad? It's never acceptable to call somebody a Nazi imo but you can't say it's ok to call one group that but not another. How about we just stopped name calling alltoghter eh?

Name calling is the order of the day. We even have a thread called "scummy Tories" on here. We are a thoroughly uncivil society and until we address how everyone talks to one another I'm not going waste a second of my time feeling sympathy for any politician who has to deal with the consequences of the situation they've helped create.
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Twitter is such fun to read recently, everyone is a Nazi and traitor.

Also learned recently from Tommeh fans that Hitler was actually a socialist and not far right while at the same time saying Muslims need to be deported from the UK.

Embrace the chaos.
 
RichardP said:
I have absolutely no idea what you just said or what message you are trying to put across.

See, 'sidelining and ignoring' comments in my previous post.
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Attribute it to whatever you wish, however the article you posted is dumpster content, which you could perceive if you wished to appraise it objectively.
 
orchard said:
Attribute it to whatever you wish, however the article you posted is dumpster content, which you could perceive if you wished to appraise it objectively.
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I am genuinely trying to debate in good faith and good spirit with you but I just don't understand how you can call absolute facts that undermine your position 'dumpster content.'

They are all hard facts. Facts that you have referred to in a derogatory manner several times since I presented them, but not once have you been able to deny that they are facts.

You can't just ignore inconvenient truths.
 
RichardP said:
I am genuinely trying to debate in good faith and good spirit with you but I just don't understand how you can call absolute facts that undermine your position 'dumpster content.'

They are all hard facts. Facts that you have referred to in a derogatory manner several times since I presented them, but not once have you been able to deny that they are facts.

You can't just ignore inconvenient truths.
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"In 2015, the Conservatives, UKIP and the Greens promised a referendum in their manifestos. The Conservatives won a majority in Parliament, and in terms of the popular vote, Tories + UKIP + Greens = 36.1% + 12.6% + 3.6% = 52.3% of the vote on a turnout of 66.4%."

Let's for a brief moment consider the opening sentence. The implicit assumption here is that everyone that voted in that election voted with Europe in mind. This is incorrect, UKIP voters maybe, but it shouldn't be generalised any further than them, should it? Additionally, it doesn't follow necessarily that a vote for a particular party means one wants to see the whole manifesto enacted, one gives one's assent to the manifesto, but there may well be, subjectively, unpalatable aspects to it.
Thirdly, don't you think it's funny dragging in the Greens arbitrarily to get the numbers over 50pc to endorse a Tory attempt to deregulate and lower environmental/food standards?
 
orchard said:
"In 2015, the Conservatives, UKIP and the Greens promised a referendum in their manifestos. The Conservatives won a majority in Parliament, and in terms of the popular vote, Tories + UKIP + Greens = 36.1% + 12.6% + 3.6% = 52.3% of the vote on a turnout of 66.4%."

Let's for a brief moment consider the opening sentence. The implicit assumption here is that everyone that voted in that election voted with Europe in mind. This is incorrect, UKIP voters maybe, but it shouldn't be generalised any further than them, should it? Additionally, it doesn't follow necessarily that a vote for a particular party means one wants to see the whole manifesto enacted, one gives one's assent to the manifesto, but there may well be, subjectively, unpalatable aspects to it.
Thirdly, don't you think it's funny dragging in the Greens arbitrarily to get the numbers over 50pc to endorse a Tory attempt to deregulate and lower environmental/food standards?
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Well, at least you are trying now and I thank you for that.

But, no, I have to disagree. Each party manifesto was available for all the electorate to scrutinise ahead of the election. Brexit was what the election was all about and 85% of the electorate voted for a party that pledged to follow through with brexit.

That rebuts your first 2 points.

The third point re Greens is interesting but does not alter the fact that the greens pledged to also follow through with brexit. Be under no doubt, if they thought they would get a larger vote by adopting a pro EU position they would have done so. So, I have to come back to you there with a follow on question and ask you why do you think the greens are pro brexit?

That's me out now until end of Mar/early Apr.

Play nice with each other and try to remember, we are all Evertonians.
 
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