Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Harryflashman]

As I posted elsewhere, I was at the Oldham game at anfield shortly after the suarez incident where a young black lad left the field in tears, it was en masse behaviour as a result of tribalism, if it can be induced by something so inconsequential as footy then active political campaigns won't have an issue

Exactly , No doubt football is also a useful barometer .

As you say the Oldham player in tears , that scumbag doing the monkey gestures or a thousand twitter feeds post evra , where where they pre-evra ? They were there but they weren’t emboldened , they kept their grubby ideas to themselves . like weird fetishises on the Internet they can find people who they think they belong with and that everything is normal. UKIP and posters of immigrants , nasty government rhetoric or edl twitter and marches it all feeds them to think what they’re think isn’t just right it’s normal .

 

[Walken]

I forget the exact location I read it now, but there was a recent study looking at attitudes to immigration, and the long story short is that when people hear about the lives of migrants from migrants themselves, it makes a real difference. Indeed, even among leave voters, they were more likely to be persuaded by a Pole living in Britain (or other nationalities obviously) than they would be by either a remain or leave voting Brit. It kinda underlined the importance of giving a voice to migrants, as we talk about people being marginalised at the moment, but migrants living in Britain not only don't have a vote, but they also don't really have a voice. Changing that would be a super place to start.

I did a crossing through the suez canel about 2 years ago, a navy fella was brought on to provide training in the case that we had to pick up a refugee vessel further down the line or before. Now there were plenty of us who saw them as human beings beforehand but there were also some quite shocking attitudes as well. After the navy officer had finished it became more casual and he spoke at length about how basically the people you pick up will just be incredibly grateful to you and shared some the hardship stories he had heard first hand, it changed more than a few of those poor attitudes. As you hint at inclusivity and a bit more open mindedness would go a long way

 

[edge]

It's been statistically proven that those who are most exposed to EU migrants were most likely to vote remain precisely because that exposure eroded the bogeyman myth. The highest leave voting areas actually have low levels of migration.

Regarding their opinion being sought, it is in the same way any domestic policy is, not via direct referenda but via elections for MPs or MEPs, who we then task with deciding stuff in the UK and European parliaments. If you think people weren't asked their opinions on European matters then you must also think their opinion isn't asked on UK matters as the political setup is the same.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...ARAB&usg=AOvVaw0mDYV-bFoiWFoQUrjP8afQ&ampcf=1
The fact is nobody was asked did they want migration, any examples of anywhere they were asked either by the UK or the EU?
Who were they voting for labour are multicultural to the core, so who did these people have to express there wishes / fears to, the UK don't really do far right never have so tell me were they could get a hearing?
It was shouted down as racist to even voice an opinion on the subject , still is to some extent
The first chance they did they voted to change it, you might not like it or agree but if it was as valid a choice as those that are have a different view.
The EU and the UK both tried to bury there heads and hope the plebs would just get on with it.
Brexit was more complex than just that subject , but if you choose to wrap it up as the metropolitan , university set v the the uneducated racists fine it's been done to death.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...ARAB&usg=AOvVaw0mDYV-bFoiWFoQUrjP8afQ&ampcf=1
The fact is nobody was asked did they want migration, any examples of anywhere they were asked either by the UK or the EU?
Who were they voting for labour are multicultural to the core, so who did these people have to express there wishes / fears to, the UK don't really do far right never have so tell me were they could get a hearing?
It was shouted down as racist to even voice an opinion on the subject , still is to some extent
The first chance they did they voted to change it, you might not like it or agree but if it was as valid a choice as those that are have a different view.
The EU and the UK both tried to bury there heads and hope the plebs would just get on with it.
Brexit was more complex than just that subject , but if you choose to wrap it up as the metropolitan , university set v the the uneducated racists fine it's been done to death.

Well free movement of people was in the Treaty of Rome in 1957, so the UK did vote on it in the referendum to join the EU. Some would argue that there should have been a referendum for Maastricht, but it was decided upon by elected officials under the mandate given to them by our democracy. If you want a referendum for that, why not for every major decision? Should we need a referendum before entering a war, for instance? There's a lot of talk about 'taking back control' when that is exactly how our parliamentary system works - we elect people and they make decisions on our behalf.

I get btw, that many leave voting areas saw a change in their population in recent years, but again, it's hard not to see that wrapped up in racist terms. It's hard to imagine there would have been such a fuss if Boston had received large numbers of Welsh migrants or a flood of Brummies. If we accept that people are people, then x% of new people in an area should be the same regardless of their nationality, but that isn't the case here. The problem is that those people were Polish or Romanian or whatever. That's wrong however you wrap it.

 

[Lee Smith]

It's been statistically proven that those who are most exposed to EU migrants were most likely to vote remain precisely because that exposure eroded the bogeyman myth. The highest leave voting areas actually have low levels of migration.

Regarding their opinion being sought, it is in the same way any domestic policy is, not via direct referenda but via elections for MPs or MEPs, who we then task with deciding stuff in the UK and European parliaments. If you think people weren't asked their opinions on European matters then you must also think their opinion isn't asked on UK matters as the political setup is the same.

I'm not denying your claim Bruce, but "anecdotally", my area (Great Yarmouth) was one of the highest Leave voting areas in the UK, and we have a ~33% higher immigration rate than the UK as a whole.

 

[roydo]

I get btw, that many leave voting areas saw a change in their population in recent years, but again, it's hard not to see that wrapped up in racist terms.

Lets be frank. Some immigrants are easier to identify as probable immigrants, others less so. Unless you ask their name to sign for a delivery. Y'know.

 

[Frang]

May had admitted she won't be taking the tories into the next GE.

What is the point of hanging around.

Dear god!

 

[Joey66]

The Y.R.A.

The Yorkshire Republic Army !

I'm in the Yorkshire building society does that count ?lol

 

[COYBL25]

I'm in the Yorkshire building society does that count ?lol

They launder their ill gotten gains for them Joey

 

[Harryflashman]

As much as I hate farage I can usually stand about 20 minutes of his show because I like to listen to the rubbish that’s spouted .

Listening tonight I’ve heard Brexiteers advocate allowing the reunification of Ireland in a bid to allow Brexit , the desire to achieve Brexit is completely all consuming . These arch patriots are prepared to break up the United Kingdom to achieve it , that seems to me to be absolute madness if you consider their overall views.

We’ve had a decent conspiracy theory and then a couple of tory mp’s defending the theory of democracy being respecting the result of a vote by refusing to respect a vote they’ve literally just finished having .

 

[Joey66]

They launder their ill gotten gains for them Joey

Great that's why I get a great isa on my millionslol

 

[edge]

Well free movement of people was in the Treaty of Rome in 1957, so the UK did vote on it in the referendum to join the EU. Some would argue that there should have been a referendum for Maastricht, but it was decided upon by elected officials under the mandate given to them by our democracy. If you want a referendum for that, why not for every major decision? Should we need a referendum before entering a war, for instance? There's a lot of talk about 'taking back control' when that is exactly how our parliamentary system works - we elect people and they make decisions on our behalf.

I get btw, that many leave voting areas saw a change in their population in recent years, but again, it's hard not to see that wrapped up in racist terms. It's hard to imagine there would have been such a fuss if Boston had received large numbers of Welsh migrants or a flood of Brummies. If we accept that people are people, then x% of new people in an area should be the same regardless of their nationality, but that isn't the case here. The problem is that those people were Polish or Romanian or whatever. That's wrong however you wrap it.

Well if those Welsh start coming around here I am going far right myself, we all have are limits.
I am a fan of voting , hence not minding a second vote ask away whatever you want in my book, when your scared of the people's vote something is seriously wrong with your argument.
I actually heard people in Barmouth in Wales say the place had gone to the dogs because Brummie's had started to move in numbers,
So it can happen if your not careful, made me laugh because a few years before I was going into a club with some locals we had met, and the bouncers said they were checking everybody as there were Scouser's in town , very welcoming around there
The locals were fine with us inside to be fair, yep checking for Scouser's is not quite the same as stopping them, bit like immigrant 's I suppose

 

[edge]

Ps it was the Maastricht treaty that gave freedom of movement in 1992 , after we had joined, the people seen as citizens of the EU.
In the 1950's they had a work visa system in place off the top of my head ,not sure of the dates to be specific, but think they issued 6 to 8 million of them you would have to look it up to get the correct figure.

 

[Khalekan]

As much as I hate farage I can usually stand about 20 minutes of his show because I like to listen to the rubbish that’s spouted .

Listening tonight I’ve heard Brexiteers advocate allowing the reunification of Ireland in a bid to allow Brexit , the desire to achieve Brexit is completely all consuming . These arch patriots are prepared to break up the United Kingdom to achieve it , that seems to me to be absolute madness if you consider their overall views.

We’ve had a decent conspiracy theory and then a couple of tory mp’s defending the theory of democracy being respecting the result of a vote by refusing to respect a vote they’ve literally just finished having .

I am surprised that has not been put forward before now.

It really is the simplest way out of this mess for them.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

As much as I hate farage I can usually stand about 20 minutes of his show because I like to listen to the rubbish that’s spouted .

Listening tonight I’ve heard Brexiteers advocate allowing the reunification of Ireland in a bid to allow Brexit , the desire to achieve Brexit is completely all consuming . These arch patriots are prepared to break up the United Kingdom to achieve it , that seems to me to be absolute madness if you consider their overall views.

We’ve had a decent conspiracy theory and then a couple of tory mp’s defending the theory of democracy being respecting the result of a vote by refusing to respect a vote they’ve literally just finished having .

That is the exact bit that Irish Nationalist journalists have went to town on since Theresa and Arlene got loved up.

The DUP will always look to the mothership of Westminster. It just isn’t in their psyche that London will simply use them as and when they need them. They just are not as British as Finchley.

Brexiteers only concern re the backstop is that it locks them into a customs union. They couldn’t give a fig for the Ballymena Loyals who look to London rather than Dublin.