Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Harryflashman]

Here's the problem - what does "respecting the vote" mean?

Because if we take that referendum question on face value, then we voted Leave, so we should have just left on no deal immediately, yeah?

Because that's the only "respectful" interpretation of the vote I can come up with. Would you agree?

And if so, doesn't that mean that anything other than doing that would not "respect the vote", as we're seeing now with May's deal.

The whole thing is a complete dogs breakfast though some people thought it meant leave but stay in the customs union , some that freedom of movement would be maintained others perhaps most but certainly the loudest wanted a no deal type so now that’s what we hear repeatedly as what was voted for .

I’m not trying to undermine of rerun the vote but It was poor wording and poor attention to detail that has helped get us in this complete mess. Cameron carries the can and it shouldn’t be forgotten.

 

[edge]

Here's the problem - what does "respecting the vote" mean?

Because if we take that referendum question on face value, then we voted Leave, so we should have just left on no deal immediately, yeah?

Because that's the only "respectful" interpretation of the vote I can come up with. Would you agree?

And if so, doesn't that mean that anything other than doing that would not "respect the vote", as we're seeing now with May's deal.

no we just should have said we were going to leave in march next year and used the last two years to do a mutually beneficial trade deal , agreed about the people that live in each others counties for instance, other than that a clean break if the two sides couldn't agree on it within that time frame or at least have a framework in place to do a deal.
The issue has been there is no will in parliament to implement the wishes of those on the out side of the vote, they never thought it would happen , never planned for it and have tried to muddy the water to an extent that most people are resigned to it never happening , Mays deal reflects that a sham brexit in name only.

 

[nsno-chris]

The whole thing is a complete dogs breakfast though some people thought it meant leave but stay in the customs union , some that freedom of movement would be maintained others perhaps most but certainly the loudest wanted a no deal type so now that’s what we hear repeatedly as what was voted for .

I’m not trying to undermine of rerun the vote but It was poor wording and poor attention to detail that has helped get us in this complete mess. Cameron carries the can and it shouldn’t be forgotten.

He used it to try and pipe down Farage, it massively backfired and he packed his bags and done one into the abyss

He needs to be held accountable, he refused to do any risk mitigation before announcing the vote

 

[Harryflashman]

no we just should have said we were going to leave in march next year and used the last two years to do a mutually beneficial trade deal , agreed about the people that live in each others counties for instance, other than that a clean break if the two sides couldn't agree on it within that time frame or at least have a framework in place to do a deal.
The issue has been there is no will in parliament to implement the wishes of those on the out side of the vote, they never thought it would happen , never planned for it and and have tried to muddy the water to an extent that most people are resigned to it never happening , Mays deal reflects that a sham brexit in name only.

I di understand your frustration but As I’ve said above though it’s meant different things to literally everybody . Boris Johnson was saying a couple of years ago we’d be staying in the customs union now it’s an anathema to him .

You talk about the lack of will and I get that but even those who have the will , what have they done ? Nothing , they’ve given interviews to their mates on lbc and said they know the answers but aren’t telling anyone it’s ridiculous. The fact that the Brexiteers politicians seem to be able to walk away with any of this tainting them seems crazy to me , what are that actually doing ? For all may’s faults and she has too many to mention she at least seems to be trying to do something , even if it also seems far from a solution .

 

[tsubaki]

Mays deal reflects that a sham brexit in name only.

I disagree - the vote was to remain or leave, there was nothing in the ballot that mandated any course of action beyond that (hence nonsense like “Brexit means Brexit”).

Where May’s deal is a sham is by its adherence to her own, self-imposed, red lines which were entirely her own work. We could have a better Brexit next week if we accepted the four freedoms.

 

[Tubey]

no we just should have said we were going to leave in march next year and used the last two years to do a mutually beneficial trade deal , agreed about the people that live in each others counties for instance, other than that a clean break if the two sides couldn't agree on it within that time frame or at least have a framework in place to do a deal.
The issue has been there is no will in parliament to implement the wishes of those on the out side of the vote, they never thought it would happen , never planned for it and have tried to muddy the water to an extent that most people are resigned to it never happening , Mays deal reflects that a sham brexit in name only.

I don't really get what you're saying there mate sorry. Question was a simple one - what would constitute respecting the vote, given the referendum option was literally one word - "leave".

 

[edge]

I don't really get what you're saying there mate sorry. Question was a simple one - what would constitute respecting the vote, given the referendum option was literally one word - "leave".

well if its one word what i wanted mate it would be leave
but it should have been handled better.

 

[edge]

I di understand your frustration but As I’ve said above though it’s meant different things to literally everybody . Boris Johnson was saying a couple of years ago we’d be staying in the customs union now it’s an anathema to him .

You talk about the lack of will and I get that but even those who have the will , what have they done ? Nothing , they’ve given interviews to their mates on lbc and said they know the answers but aren’t telling anyone it’s ridiculous. The fact that the Brexiteers politicians seem to be able to walk away with any of this tainting them seems crazy to me , what are that actually doing ? For all may’s faults and she has too many to mention she at least seems to be trying to do something , even if it also seems far from a solution .

Brexiteer politicians have been every bit as bad, every chance to put there marker down has been met with a few squeaks then scurry away to the corner.
Although i will have little in common with most of them anyway.
I have never been of the opinion that it was a winner takes all senario, i voted out but other peoples wishes even if contrary to mine should have been taken into account,
but are leaders have shown themselves unable to act in a way that could do that, cross party committees ect , they on both sides been shown to be very inadequate MP;s when it comes to a big issue or indeed helping to unite the country after the vote.
My reasons for not wanting to be in the EU are more than likely the polar opposite to many shouting loudest on the subject in parliament and in the media.
Only thing we have in common is the wish to leave the EU so ended up voting on the same side of the referendum as a result.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/p...iment-on-the-international-space-station.aspx

Paid for in part by European Space Agency money. @Joey66 this is where your 'divorce settlement' is going, projects like this.

 

[Joey66]

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/p...iment-on-the-international-space-station.aspx

Paid for in part by European Space Agency money. @Joey66 this is where your 'divorce settlement' is going, projects like this.

That's the one we have funded to the tune of one million plus Bruce......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's the one we have funded to the tune of one million plus Bruce......

Is that a question Joe?

 

[Khalekan]

To take that fellow's logic to the nth degree we should never have another General Election because there was a "peoples vote" in 2017 and that was as underwhelming and divisive a decision as the Referendum.

But hey ho the people spoke so let's just live with it forever.

A wise man once said "when the facts change then so does my mind".

And that is where we stand right now.

Now we see what Brexit made flesh looks like......and it is not very appealing to anyone as far as I can see, Brexiteer or Remainer.

It was a Referendum that got us in this mess in the first place.....a Referendum on the facts as they now stand would seem a sensible enough thing to me and would allow people who have changed their mind, one way or t' other, or indeed people who did not vote at the 2016 Referendum to vote in a better informed way.

Think of not as a "second" Referendum.....that is done and dusted and slightly more than 50% of the country voted for Brexit, albeit a Blind Brexit, and the outcome has been nowt short of shambolic thus far.

Well, now the blinkers are off and people will really know what they would be voting for if a Referendum on the matter was called.

So IMO we need a Referendum on whichever outcome May's vote throws up next week, i.e Her deal or No Deal on one side....and stay in the EU on the other.

 

[Khalekan]

Indeed.

Any attempt to have a second referendum without serious work towards working out and fixing why millions voted to leave is doomed, especially because those at the top of PV are not competent, honest or really that concerned about anyone but themselves.

By the same token pushing through a No Deal Brexit without serious work to find out why almost as many voted to Stay is doomed as well.

As we have seen in the subsequent "negotiations"......a term I use lightly.

The whole reason Brexit is proving so problematical is that there was no overwhelming consensus for it.....51.8% of them as voted...…sommat like 32% of the entire UK population.

And then there is the disparity in voting between young people and old people....post Brexit this country is going to be as unhappy and divided at the USA is under Trump.

 

[magicjuan]

So if you don't get brexit, you will vote for something even worse and even less thought out in the future?

Like any other parliament? Time after time elections have been fought on the premise of manifestos that, once elected, governments of both persuasions have ignored or obfuscated on.
This state of politics now has fractured the process, beyond redemption if I'm honest, of what was already detached from the general public, acting as it does in the interest of corporations primarily while the public scramble around and pay the price. This is the bubble. The revolving door.
The concept of public representstion has all but vanished and when you have the same gerbils chasing self interest and posturing first then it is no great surprise to see the absolute shambles we're now facing.
We're goosed with Brexit, we'll be goosed in a different way without it. We need to change the system completely.
How many MPs will vote the way their constituents did?

 

[Kenshin]

Maybe having a no deal leave is the best option?

Essentially we voted leave to make the UK independent from the EU so having deals in place no matter how well negotiated is still giving the safety net. So the leave vote should have been leave no deal and make the UK completely independent.