Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

Ukip would have and now don't have any support now they don't have leave the EU to hide behind, stripped of that the voters just see than as a gang of loons.
Cameron should have used the powers that the EU have already in place meant that most of the scare tactics were not valid, I have said repeatedly it wasn't the EU fault that he and others didn't use the tools the EU laws on immigration offered,
It was the unwillingness of the UK government to implement them , or tell people the facts behind them, that's one thing I will not blame the EU for.

Well yes, UKIPs support has dwindled as the Tories are now practically the same thing, forcing UKIP to go all BNP.

 

[edge]

It's perhaps also worth pointing out that this goes deeper than direct research related policies. Sir Paul Nurse was on Radio 4 this morning explaining how fundamentally unwelcome EU researchers feel in the UK as a result of government rhetoric.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm around 8.10am if you want to listen. Just to repeat if people don't listen - 97% of the 1,000 scientists associated with the Crick Institute believe a hard Brexit will be terrible for science.

just listened to that Bruce , just brings home how chaotic these talks have become and the harm the uncertainty is doing, thought both the people talking came across really well.
Still don't get if both parties get benefits from working together they cant carry on doing just that rather than one side saying we aren't playing with you anymore and running off with the ball, just because one side has decided to go down a different path.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

just listened to that Bruce , just brings home how chaotic these talks have become and the harm the uncertainty is doing, thought both the people talking came across really well.
Still don't get if both parties get benefits from working together they cant carry on doing just that rather than one side saying we aren't playing with you anymore and running off with the ball, just because one side has decided to go down a different path.

Sam Gyimah is okay, but in relative terms, the post isn't especially powerful, so I don't know that he has a great deal of influence unfortunately. Indeed, you could well argue that the constituents of the leave vote aren't really that interested in scientists either, so I'm not sure that the Crick survey will be given any attention by May whatsoever.

Re your second point, it's perhaps worth remembering that a big part of Nurse's beef is that the government are creating/have created an unwelcome environment for EU scientists and researchers. This is essentially a talent business, and there is considerable movement of researchers both into the UK from the EU and vice versa. Collaboration among European universities is very high, and so barriers to that collaboration are not supportive at all. Migration has been a huge driver of this (if not the main driver) and with all talk being of massively reducing immigration, it's making a horrible environment for people here who just want to live their lives (and I know this from personal experience).

There are also a lot of EU-wide projects, whether around basic research (which would require the UK paying into the budget) or common standards (around data sharing etc.), which would require the UK being a rule taker rather than rule maker. Both of those things were strongly rejected by leave voters, so when coupled with the migration issue, it's hard to see how any leave voter can really support being part of EU science and research projects.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Interesting that Amber Rudd stated on newsnight that if a no-deal option is presented to parliament then she believes it would be rejected and ultimately force a second referendum and the second referendum would include the option to remain in the EU.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[edge]

Sam Gyimah is okay, but in relative terms, the post isn't especially powerful, so I don't know that he has a great deal of influence unfortunately. Indeed, you could well argue that the constituents of the leave vote aren't really that interested in scientists either, so I'm not sure that the Crick survey will be given any attention by May whatsoever.

Re your second point, it's perhaps worth remembering that a big part of Nurse's beef is that the government are creating/have created an unwelcome environment for EU scientists and researchers. This is essentially a talent business, and there is considerable movement of researchers both into the UK from the EU and vice versa. Collaboration among European universities is very high, and so barriers to that collaboration are not supportive at all. Migration has been a huge driver of this (if not the main driver) and with all talk being of massively reducing immigration, it's making a horrible environment for people here who just want to live their lives (and I know this from personal experience).

There are also a lot of EU-wide projects, whether around basic research (which would require the UK paying into the budget) or common standards (around data sharing etc.), which would require the UK being a rule taker rather than rule maker. Both of those things were strongly rejected by leave voters, so when coupled with the migration issue, it's hard to see how any leave voter can really support being part of EU science and research projects.

We are contributors both financially and intellectually and time to those projects already in place Bruce , it goes into billions of pounds figures over the years, so why does the EU think its right we no longer have access to are own existing and past investments?
It like the UK, is subject to various international laws. trade bodies that stop this sort of thing happening so its on very legally shaky ground anyway.
Once we are no longer contributing to the EU and for future projects that might change, they like us will have to judge if that's worth the risk at the time, not to cooperate with each other.
I agree the current climate may make it harder to interact with each other in some fields , but it is only a problem if both or one of the sides make it one .
If the rules are mutually agreed we wouldn't be a rule taker , being a leave voter doesn't mean i want to stop the UK having a relationship with the EU if it means we can both benefit from it , other than the odd swivel eyed loon who might want us to build a wall or something i don't think most leave voters have any problem dealing with the EU counties in the future on lots of issues.

 

[sbbefc]

there main aim was to leave the EU that's what they stood up for and most of there voters had no other outlet to express there wishes other than through them,
now after the Brexit result they have little or no support in the ballot box and are an irrelevance, unless May totally cocks the deal up.

A proportion of their vote will inevitably go back to the likes of the BNP when this is all done and dusted. When brexit gets worse they'll turn their attention back to the non white population of this country. The far right in this country is no different that of any other European country. The numbers are just spread out through UKIP and the tories atm.

 

[edge]

A proportion of their vote will inevitably go back to the likes of the BNP when this is all done and dusted. When brexit gets worse they'll turn their attention back to the non white population of this country. The far right in this country is no different that of any other European country. The numbers are just spread out through UKIP and the tories atm.

the far right unlike in Europe has never had any real traction in the Uk historically, there isn't enough of them to make any in roads now i suspect.

 

[sbbefc]

the far right unlike in Europe has never had any real traction in the Uk historically, there isn't enough of them to make any in roads now i suspect.

But that's surely down to our two party system? Much like the United States. The fact that we're actually leaving the EU goes to show that a large proportion of the population of the country is far right in their mind set. I know many people voted leave for a verity of reasons, but from what I can see most of those that did vote leave are nationalists.

 

[edge]

Interesting that Amber Rudd stated on newsnight that if a no-deal option is presented to parliament then she believes it would be rejected and ultimately force a second referendum and the second referendum would include the option to remain in the EU.

Interesting times ahead.

they will be pushed for time at this stage.
article 50 does not have a revoke clause in it anyway as far as i am aware , even if the UK wanted it to stop it,the EU members would have to change their constitution in the same time frame, not likely even if they wanted to
That would leave us out of the EU without a deal, same as a no deal anyway.
be interesting as you say.

 

[edge]

But that's surely down to our two party system? Much like the United States. The fact that we're actually leaving the EU goes to show that a large proportion of the population of the country is far right in their mind set. I know many people voted leave for a verity of reasons, but from what I can see most of those that did vote leave are nationalists.

Bit of a sweeping statement that mate, lots of traditionally left wing or labour voters voted out , as did a few unions mine the RMT backed out hardly a bastion of the right wing, in fact there has been a strong left wing anti EU feeling throughout the years from the likes if Corbyn.
there will have been a smattering of nationalist in there but not a majority ,you would get a myriad of different reasons why people wanted to leave on both the left and right sides of the brexit argument.

 

[Old Blue 2]

But that's surely down to our two party system? Much like the United States. The fact that we're actually leaving the EU goes to show that a large proportion of the population of the country is far right in their mind set. I know many people voted leave for a verity of reasons, but from what I can see most of those that did vote leave are nationalists.

Rubbish.

You have the inside track on over 17 million people in the UK, according to your last sentence (re being Nationalists)...?

How about, I didn't want to lob billions to that corrupt organisation every year. How about, I don't a European court to impose its laws on the UK. How about, I don't want or accept European courts overturing the legally-made decisions of UK courts.

As a lieflong Labour voter, your comment about 'far right' is hilarious!

How about, you stop talking twaddle...!

 

[roydo]

Rubbish.

You have the inside track on over 17 million people in the UK, according to your last sentence (re being Nationalists)...?

How about, I didn't want to lob billions to that corrupt organisation every year. How about, I don't a European court to impose its laws on the UK. How about, I don't want or accept European courts overturing the legally-made decisions of UK courts.

As a lieflong Labour voter, your comment about 'far right' is hilarious!

How about, you stop talking twaddle...!

That said, you do agree with Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris, and Farage though.

 

[sbbefc]

Bit of a sweeping statement that mate, lots of traditionally left wing or labour voters voted out , as did a few unions mine the RMT backed out hardly a bastion of the right wing, in fact there has been a strong left wing anti EU feeling throughout the years from the likes if Corbyn.
there will have been a smattering of nationalist in there but not a majority ,you would get a myriad of different reasons why people wanted to leave on both the left and right sides of the brexit argument.

I acknowledged within my post that people voted for a number of reasons. But lets be honest, the whole leave campaign came from the right. Ukip and the tories both pandered to them. Vote leave whipped up fears of immigration. I had left wing mates who considered voting leave but felt better of it in the end as the tories would be in control of leaving.

 

[roydo]

I acknowledged within my post that people voted for a number of reasons. But lets be honest, the whole leave campaign came from the right. Ukip and the tories both pandered to them. Vote leave whipped up fears of immigration. I had left wing mates who considered voting leave but felt better of it in the end as the tories would be in control of leaving.

Sadly, thats true.

 

[peteblue]

A limit to what Pete?

Of what you feel is acceptable or will put up with.....