Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Like many I guess, I didnt vote to stay with any real enthusiasm, more a case of "It aint too shabby" and not being entirely sure what leaving really meant.

That stance seems to get validated, almost daily.

Other than the hard line leavers, surely normal, cba voters can see that?

Which all kinda invalidates the original referendum. If Parliament reject the deal (or no-deal) presented by May, then surely it needs to go back to the people to have the final say - only this time voting decisons will be made knowing the full facts and implications of leave versus remain.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Like many I guess, I didnt vote to stay with any real enthusiasm, more a case of "It aint too shabby" and not being entirely sure what leaving really meant.

That stance seems to get validated, almost daily.

Other than the hard line leavers, surely normal, cba voters can see that?

Which does kinda make a mockery of the whole thing. If we're basing such a huge decision on the basis of people voting with this level of knowledge (and to be honest, interest), then how likely is it that we're making an informed decision? Oh, and for the record, I'm sure the three stooges made perfectly informed decisions before Joe, Pete and OldBlue get their knickers in a knot about being called uninformed

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Which all kinda invalidates the original referendum. If Parliament reject the deal (or no-deal) presented by May, then surely it needs to go back to the people to have the final say - only this time voting decisons will be made knowing the full facts and implications of leave versus remain.

I'm not convinced tbh. If you were required to pass a simple test on some of the basic facts you mention, what proportion of the electorate would pass do you think?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You can see our trade with the world here btw. The top line is what projections believe our trade would have been without Brexit, and the bottom line is what they actually are.

 

[The binman chronicles]

cant we just split britain in half? one gets to stay in the eu and everyone else moves to wales and leaves, sorted

As the difference is only around 80k more in Wales that chose to leave than remain and the fact that as Pete and Joey keep reminding us that the majority (17 point whatever million) voted to remain then they need the biggest country, so England should be kicked out of the EU with anyone else from the UK that wants out...

It's in the name Little Englander.

 

[sbbefc]

True.

Would have been nice if Remain had actually gone on the strengths of their arguments, rather than trying to belittle the points of Leave's.

Maybe then the result would been different.

Utter tits (apologies for the language) on both sides, and in our government now and in the EU (yes, they aren't all great). But I'm fed up of it now and just want it sorted one way or the other. Whatever happens, it isn't the end of the world.

To some it will be though, the potential economic downturn may be enough to ruin peoples lives.

I'm doing ok, I have a pretty mundane job in local government which pays just over the national average. I'm a permanent member of staff (so if things go badly wrong at least the contractors will be the first to go), I've just turned thirty, I can't afford a house and I'd like to start a family. Things as they are aren't brilliant but im better off than many people in the country. However, it wont take much for a whole generation to be ruined by this decision. And to boot it's my generation which will be taking on the burden of our aging baby boomer generation.

The positives of leaving do not outweigh the economic turmoil which may be unleashed. I just can't forsee a scenario where the country will be better off by leaving and it's all a bit worrying.

 

[BlueToff]

To some it will be though, the potential economic downturn may be enough to ruin peoples lives.

I'm doing ok, I have a pretty mundane job in local government which pays just over the national average. I'm a permanent member of staff (so if things go badly wrong at least the contractors will be the first to go), I've just turned thirty, I can't afford a house and I'd like to start a family. Things as they are aren't brilliant but im better off than many people in the country. However, it wont take much for a whole generation to be ruined by this decision. And to boot it's my generation which will be taking on the burden of our aging baby boomer generation.

The positives of leaving do not outweigh the economic turmoil which may be unleashed. I just can't forsee a scenario how the country will be better off by leaving and it's all a bit worrying.

But the same could be said for any situation, mate.

I'm not getting into the right or wrong argument. That's been and gone.

I'm 23. The vast majority of people my age voted remain. I think we'll be okay, although I do think you're right in that we'll take a hit.

But there really is bigger things to worry about. We've got corrupt governments worldwide that nobody (including the EU) do anything about. Saudi Arabia bombing Yemen with UK, US and European weaponary. A socialist government in Venezuela resulting in a famine.

The world's a crap place, but I'd rather us stop worrying about it all and just deal with situations that arise. At the end of the day, Brexit happened. The government (whether in the remain or leave camps) should have been in a place to deal with and have a plan. The government didn't have a plan. Not Cameron. Not May. Not Corbyn. None of them.

So instead of spending two-and-a-half years begrudging and debating a decision a thousand times over, the government need to have a plan and a solution. Whatever that plan ultimately ends up being, life will go on, because people make the most of any opportunity because that's what people do.

I voted leave. Looking back, I wish I'd have voted remain, then I see other things that make me think I was right all along. So, basically, I'm not sure either way so I'm just going to wait to see how it happens.

 

[Khalekan]

To some it will be though, the potential economic downturn may be enough to ruin peoples lives.

I'm doing ok, I have a pretty mundane job in local government which pays just over the national average. I'm a permanent member of staff (so if things go badly wrong at least the contractors will be the first to go), I've just turned thirty, I can't afford a house and I'd like to start a family. Things as they are aren't brilliant but im better off than many people in the country. However, it wont take much for a whole generation to be ruined by this decision. And to boot it's my generation which will be taking on the burden of our aging baby boomer generation.

The positives of leaving do not outweigh the economic turmoil which may be unleashed. I just can't forsee a scenario where the country will be better off by leaving and it's all a bit worrying.

+1

 

[Ruairi77]

To some it will be though, the potential economic downturn may be enough to ruin peoples lives.

I'm doing ok, I have a pretty mundane job in local government which pays just over the national average. I'm a permanent member of staff (so if things go badly wrong at least the contractors will be the first to go), I've just turned thirty, I can't afford a house and I'd like to start a family. Things as they are aren't brilliant but im better off than many people in the country. However, it wont take much for a whole generation to be ruined by this decision. And to boot it's my generation which will be taking on the burden of our aging baby boomer generation.

The positives of leaving do not outweigh the economic turmoil which may be unleashed. I just can't forsee a scenario where the country will be better off by leaving and it's all a bit worrying.

Good post.
I think what the likes of Pete, Joey and Old Blue are missing is that when they were 30 a permanent job in local government would have easily bought them a modest house and provided adequate funds to bring up a family. That's not the case anymore. A far larger part of the population are less insulated against recession than the generations that went before. Now you could spend years on the question 'why?' and the EU and globalization probably feature in the reasons, however, blindly leaving the common market and then trying to figure out the economic questions of our time seems reckless in the extreme.
I genuinely hope a reasonable solution can be found but I also hope people are more acutely aware of the dangers of manipulated nationalism.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I'm not convinced tbh. If you were required to pass a simple test on some of the basic facts you mention, what proportion of the electorate would pass do you think?

not a lot - the actual distribution of the key facts are vital to the validity of a second referendum

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

You can see our trade with the world here btw. The top line is what projections believe our trade would have been without Brexit, and the bottom line is what they actually are.

Interesting graphic.

The government’s own leaked impact assessments estimate that trade deals with nearly every country in the world would add just 0.3% – 0.6% to GDP – compared to a 5% hit from leaving the Single Market.

As we have already seen, Liam Fox’s attempts to negotiate trade deals are going nowhere fast. Trade deals take many years and involve many trade-offs that the public are unlikely to be happy about. But if Pete is happy to munch on chlorinated chicken, then so be it.

Also whilst I'm on the subject of trade. If we do BREXIT and then try and negotiate trade deals - what do you think the countries we are negotiating with are going to come back with? One thing I can see is they would want a concession whereby more immigration visas are granted to their nationals wanting to enter the UK.

 

[dholliday]

I voted leave. Looking back, I wish I'd have voted remain, then I see other things that make me think I was right all along. So, basically, I'm not sure either way so I'm just going to wait to see how it happens.

intelligent post, this, especially that bit...recognising that one is not sure is an underrated quality in these pick-a-side times.

David Lynch is often asked for exact answers to his imagery in his films, his answer is often variations of the same zen philosophy: (paraphrasing) 'in real life we don't have the answers, we don't truly know if we're doing or thinking the right thing, we don't fully understand any of it really...why should my films be any different?'

 

[Ruairi77]

intelligent post, this, especially that bit...recognising that one is not sure is an underrated quality in these pick-a-side times.

David Lynch is often asked for exact answers to his imagery in his films, his answer is often variations of the same zen philosophy: (paraphrasing) 'in real life we don't have the answers, we don't truly know if we're doing or thinking the right thing, we don't fully understand any of it really...why should my films be any different?'

christ man, It's not pick a side times. People from right and left voted to stay and leave.
Brexit is a lot simpler than Lost Highway.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

intelligent post, this, especially that bit...recognising that one is not sure is an underrated quality in these pick-a-side times.

David Lynch is often asked for exact answers to his imagery in his films, his answer is often variations of the same zen philosophy: (paraphrasing) 'in real life we don't have the answers, we don't truly know if we're doing or thinking the right thing, we don't fully understand any of it really...why should my films be any different?'

You often say we don't have the answers, and we should be open minded, yet throughout every debate on here you seem to be coming down firmly on your chosen side.

 

[dholliday]

You often say we don't have the answers, and we should be open minded, yet throughout every debate on here you seem to be coming down firmly on your chosen side.

what is my chosen side?