Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Harryflashman]

I am the same as @Eggs re NI politics, but IF that was a way out of this mess, I dont reckon many on the mainland would have too much of an issue with that. But I guess that would be like catnip for the SNP, so the HOC is unlikely to agree with me.

Inevitable break up of one union versus England, (and Wales probably), being out of another one.

All a bit mental this.

I heard a couple of people on a phone in before though and as far as the question of the Irish border is concerned and any possible break up then it’s scaremongering and Brexit is their overwhelming concern .

I do understand the desire of many of those who voted to leave and a desire to follow it through , it’s not for me but I get it . It’s the at all costs attitude that concerns me if I’m honest . I’m sure some will be here imminently to reassure us or me that there are technical developments that’ll sort it or that it is as those callers believed all scaremongering. I’m honestly not a remainer hiding behind Ireland or the border to force another referendum I just want things to work out somehow but as has been said many times I just can’t see how .

It's a circle that can't be squared.

The very phrase I was just searching for as I typed my post .

 

[roydo]

Indeed, and I doubt most people on the mainland would have any issue with the NI staying in the Single Market and Customs Union either which is the easiest and most obvious way out of this mess. The problem remains the DUP and the British government's dependence on them for survival.

It's a circle that can't be squared.

Trouble is, no way would the Tories agree to that.

 

[roydo]

I heard a couple of people on a phone in before though and as far as the question of the Irish border is concerned and any possible break up then it’s scaremongering and Brexit is their overwhelming concern .

I do understand the desire of many of those who voted to leave and a desire to follow it through , it’s not for me but I get it . It’s the at all costs attitude that concerns me if I’m honest . I’m sure some will be here imminently to reassure us or me that there are technical developments that’ll sort it or that it is as those callers believed all scaremongering. I’m honestly not a remainer hiding behind Ireland or the border to force another referendum I just want things to work out somehow but as has been said many times I just can’t see how .




The very phrase I was just searching for as I typed my post .

I posted the phrase "We havnt really thought this through have we?" a few days after the referendum result, as is slowly dawned on me that it was obvious plenty hadnt. (Including me. I voted remain partly cos I didnt have a clue what leaving meant)

2 years later, and nothing has changed.

 

[Khalekan]

...I feel like i’m walking on egg shells where NI politics is concerned, but are there non-Sinn Fein supporters who would support an All Ireland referendum in order to stay in the EU?

Yes.

They would be supporters of the other nationalist party, the SDLP, currently without any MPs due to the Sinn Fein surge which has played out wonderfully for the DUP as the seats the SDLP used to have would have significantly altered the Westminster arithmetic and would have given northern Irish nationalists a say in these debates in the HOC, which for the past eighteen months has seen the DUP project themselves as the only opinion in NI, given Sinn Fein’s adherence to an outdated and and, in the current climate, self defeating policy of “abstenionism”.

The DUP has been successful in turning the Brexit debate into sommat more than merelyleaving the EU....they have waved flags and talked about “blood” red lines which is designed to keep moderate unionists thinking about constitutional issues rather than the bread and butter issues which are far more important.

Let me re-iterate.....Mr. Barnier has effectively given NI a pass to remain in both the UK and the EU.

The CBI in NI cannot believe their luck and want this opportunity grasped with both hands.

But the DUP refuse to countenance anything which recognises the fact that Nothern Ireland is not a mono cultural state and that nearly half the people there would rather leave the UK than the EU.

They are afraid of a Border Poll because there is a narrow strip of people in the middle who could just tilt the balance against them.

The people whom regard their financial well being as being more important than flags and 17th century battles.

 

[Harryflashman]

Yes.

They would be supporters of the other nationalist party, the SDLP, currently without any MPs due to the Sinn Fein surge which has played out wonderfully for the DUP as the seats the SDLP used to have would have significantly altered the Westminster arithmetic and would have given northern Irish nationalists a say in these debates in the HOC, which for the past eighteen months has seen the DUP project themselves as the only opinion in NI, given Sinn Fein’s adherence to an outdated and and, in the current climate, self defeating policy of “abstenionism”.

The DUP has been successful in turning the Brexit debate into sommat more than merelyleaving the EU....they have waved flags and talked about “blood” red lines which is designed to keep moderate unionists thinking about constitutional issues rather than the bread and butter issues which are far more important.

Let me re-iterate.....Mr. Barnier has effectively given NI a pass to remain in both the UK and the EU.

The CBI in NI cannot believe their luck and want this opportunity grasped with both hands.

But the DUP refuse to countenance anything which recognises the fact that Nothern Ireland is not a mono cultural state and that nearly half the people there would rather leave the UK than the EU.

They are afraid of a Border Poll because there is a narrow strip of people in the middle who could just tilt the balance against them.

The people whom regard their financial well being as being more important than flags and 17th century battles.

I think if you’re Sinn Fein the DUP are effectively doing your job for you , I’d suggest the DUP specifically and the Brexit debacle generally has probably done more to advance the cause of a United Ireland than any thing in recent history that leaps quickly to mind .

 

[Khalekan]

I think if you’re Sinn Fein the DUP are effectively doing your job for you , I’d suggest the DUP specifically and the Brexit debacle generally has probably done more to advance the cause of a United Ireland than any thing in recent history that leaps quickly to mind .

Sadly not, Harry.

IMO the cause of Irish unity is currently being set back by at least thirty or forty years.

 

[Harryflashman]

Sadly not, Harry.

IMO the cause of Irish unity is currently being set back by at least thirty or forty years.

Because of the polarisation of opinion ? I have major concerns that Brexit and border issues could well severely damage the peace process , I just thought that given the majority for remain and the intransigence of the DUP future possibilities might support the idea of unity .

 

[Eggs]

Yes.

They would be supporters of the other nationalist party, the SDLP, currently without any MPs due to the Sinn Fein surge which has played out wonderfully for the DUP as the seats the SDLP used to have would have significantly altered the Westminster arithmetic and would have given northern Irish nationalists a say in these debates in the HOC, which for the past eighteen months has seen the DUP project themselves as the only opinion in NI, given Sinn Fein’s adherence to an outdated and and, in the current climate, self defeating policy of “abstenionism”.

The DUP has been successful in turning the Brexit debate into sommat more than merelyleaving the EU....they have waved flags and talked about “blood” red lines which is designed to keep moderate unionists thinking about constitutional issues rather than the bread and butter issues which are far more important.

Let me re-iterate.....Mr. Barnier has effectively given NI a pass to remain in both the UK and the EU.

The CBI in NI cannot believe their luck and want this opportunity grasped with both hands.

But the DUP refuse to countenance anything which recognises the fact that Nothern Ireland is not a mono cultural state and that nearly half the people there would rather leave the UK than the EU.

They are afraid of a Border Poll because there is a narrow strip of people in the middle who could just tilt the balance against them.

The people whom regard their financial well being as being more important than flags and 17th century battles.

..I have to say, I wondered if NI were missing an amazing commercial opportunity here.

 

[Khalekan]

Because of the polarisation of opinion ? I have major concerns that Brexit and border issues could well severely damage the peace process , I just thought that given the majority for remain and the intransigence of the DUP future possibilities might support the idea of unity .

Well yes, the polarisation is a massive thing.

Ireland will not be united whilst there is a fractious and vocal majority of unionists marching to the DUP tune.

The South would not want that.

But also the current right wing shift in the Tory Party and its relationship with the extreme DUP is setting things back.

This has al, the hallmarks of Carson and Bonar Law over a century ago when the Third Home Rule Bill was used by the Tories and the Unionists to cause mischief for Asquith.

And we know what happened then.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Sadly not, Harry.

IMO the cause of Irish unity is currently being set back by at least thirty or forty years.

I don’t think so Khal, I think the border question has been returned front and centre into the minds of non SF voting Nationalists.

Brexit, for me, will push this grouping back into voting on constitutional lines just as NI sees a majority Catholic population for the first time. There is an inevitability about it for me.

The DUP have played an unwittingly crucial role in all of this.

 

[Harryflashman]

I don’t think so Khal, I think the border question has been returned front and centre into the minds of non SF voting Nationalists.

Brexit, for me, will push this grouping back into voting on constitutional lines just as NI sees a majority Catholic population for the first time. There is an inevitability about it for me.

The DUP have played an unwittingly crucial role in all of this.

Yeah that was my reading of the situation

 

[Joey66]

We now have more backstops than the English cricket league........

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

I think if you’re Sinn Fein the DUP are effectively doing your job for you , I’d suggest the DUP specifically and the Brexit debacle generally has probably done more to advance the cause of a United Ireland than any thing in recent history that leaps quickly to mind .

Spot on analysis. Why are we not hearing SF protesting about this mess everyday ? Because they know a hard Brexit will accelerate a united Ireland. No need to say anything when you can sit back and watch the DUP cause the very thing they are dead set against.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

A no-deal scenario in Brexit negotiations is now "more likely than ever before" EU President Donald Tusk has warned this evening.

Seems inevitable now if it wasn't already.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

You are arguing about the DUP now. This is the EU thread....

That's because they are a part of the EU argument. They are also part of the Irish border thread but hey, you just keep on ignoring/dodging the questions posed to you. Laughable.....