Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I understand leave won , if I didn’t its been repeated enough times in this thread to have been made pretty clear . Although a remainer I’ve tried to avoid being too supportive of the calls for a second referendum even though it’s something that might sort the mess out , because well you know will of the people and all that . Although obviously as the situation continues to unravel that might change .

I’ve said it hear before but it feels appropriate again , What I don’t understand is why those that voted leave and particularly those with the loudest voices seem able to decide exactly what type of Brexit they approve of. Because the referendum was so badly written we got in/out so we’ve got out , why do they get to say “not chequers it’s no good “ , “Norway no way “ etc . I don’t understand why their opinion on what kind of Brexit we have is apparently more valid than mine .
If we’d had a referendum with choices then it’d probably have split the vote and very possibly remain might have won , it didn’t . That being the case the type of Brexit we have is clearly up in the air and I believe my desire for the ‘softest ‘ possible Brexit is just as valid as joe’s or Petes . Obviously the government should cobble something together but whilst the debate is going on I don’t understand why everything that isn’t effectively a no deal Brexit or has super tacked in front of it is shouted down .

Its probably worth rereading this:-

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

The Leave voters rejected it.....

 

[Ruairi77]

I'll just sit back and laugh here at your faux indignation.

you're right, I'm not overly fussed. You on the otherhand...

 

[Joey66]

so you're upset because bruce pointed out that Scotland voted to remain while England voted to leave? I think he's well aware it was a UK vote. In fact you called it a Great British vote, which was incorrect.

Ok it's the great UK vote then if you want to be pradantic .......

 

[Joey66]

I understand leave won , if I didn’t its been repeated enough times in this thread to have been made pretty clear . Although a remainer I’ve tried to avoid being too supportive of the calls for a second referendum even though it’s something that might sort the mess out , because well you know will of the people and all that . Although obviously as the situation continues to unravel that might change .

I’ve said it hear before but it feels appropriate again , What I don’t understand is why those that voted leave and particularly those with the loudest voices seem able to decide exactly what type of Brexit they approve of. Because the referendum was so badly written we got in/out so we’ve got out , why do they get to say “not chequers it’s no good “ , “Norway no way “ etc . I don’t understand why their opinion on what kind of Brexit we have is apparently more valid than mine .
If we’d had a referendum with choices then it’d probably have split the vote and very possibly remain might have won , it didn’t . That being the case the type of Brexit we have is clearly up in the air and I believe my desire for the ‘softest ‘ possible Brexit is just as valid as joe’s or Petes . Obviously the government should cobble something together but whilst the debate is going on I don’t understand why everything that isn’t effectively a no deal Brexit or has super tacked in front of it is shouted down .

I could understand having another vote in the long term future if Brexit is a failure ...but hey we have not left the EU yet so to call for one now is premature, and against democracy.....
Project fear has been ramped up because of dithering May....
We need a leader to tell the EU exactly how it's going to be .....or the divorce settlement is off the table......
Do you think Winston Churchill would have took the crap the EU has offered in negotiations over the last two years?..........

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

I could understand having another vote in the long term future if Brexit is a failure ...but hey we have not left the EU yet so to call for one now is premature, and against democracy.....
Project fear has been ramped up because of dithering May....
We need a leader to tell the EU exactly how it's going to be .....or the divorce settlement is off the table......
Do you think Winston Churchill would have took the crap the EU has offered in negotiations over the last two years?..........

Typical Little Englander/ Us v Them mentality - you'd think Hitler had occupied France and was about to invade Britain the way you are going on.

It is not incumbent on the EU to offer you anything. You have caused this mess yourselves so it is you who should have to sort it out. The EU has bent over backwards to resolve the outstanding issues, in particular the insolvable Irish border problem, but every EU suggestion has been rejected by the British government because it is in hoc with the DUP upon whom it is dependant on survival.

Either a UK general election or a 2nd referendum is the only way that this mess is going to be sorted out.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Ok it's the great UK vote then if you want to be pradantic .......

You couldn't make that up......

 

[magicjuan]

Typical Little Englander/ Us v Them mentality - you'd think Hitler had occupied France and was about to invade Britain the way you are going on.

It is not incumbent on the EU to offer you anything. You have caused this mess yourselves so it is you who should have to sort it out. The EU has bent over backwards to resolve the outstanding issues, in particular the insolvable Irish border problem, but every EU suggestion has been rejected by the British government because it is in hoc with the DUP upon whom it is dependant on survival.

Either a UK general election or a 2nd referendum is the only way that this mess is going to be sorted out.

The EU have done nothing of the sort. The article enforced after the vote coupled with a yes/no option has made it an impossible situation to resolve.
The only way to resolve all this is to have a fully informed public and we couldn't have that now could we?

 

[Joey66]

You couldn't make that up......

We are the United Kingdom that's not made up .......it's a fact.....

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I’m quite happy to leave with an FTA or no agreement at all tbh.....I don’t particularly like the nonsense that is being put forward....

I would imagine some sort of phased leave would be in everyone’s best interests instead of jumping off the cliff edge sort of speak. Take one option now then renegotiate in several years?
Not that I’m completely aware how these things would work. If we accepted certain terms now would there be a time frame on how long they would have to be in place for?

 

[Joey66]

Typical Little Englander/ Us v Them mentality - you'd think Hitler had occupied France and was about to invade Britain the way you are going on.

It is not incumbent on the EU to offer you anything. You have caused this mess yourselves so it is you who should have to sort it out. The EU has bent over backwards to resolve the outstanding issues, in particular the insolvable Irish border problem, but every EU suggestion has been rejected by the British government because it is in hoc with the DUP upon whom it is dependant on survival.

Either a UK general election or a 2nd referendum is the only way that this mess is going to be sorted out.

Being patriotic is not a little Englander ask the 17.4 million who voted Out that - sick of a berocratic EU.......
Who have proved that they like to bully countries.....

 

[Harryflashman]

I could understand having another vote in the long term future if Brexit is a failure ...but hey we have not left the EU yet so to call for one now is premature, and against democracy.....
Project fear has been ramped up because of dithering May....
We need a leader to tell the EU exactly how it's going to be .....or the divorce settlement is off the table......
Do you think Winston Churchill would have took the crap the EU has offered in negotiations over the last two years?..........

Sorry mate I’m not getting into a Churchill debate , however i said in my post exactly what you said I’m not looking for a second vote .

Your hyperbole aside I believe My point still Stands , why does your we voted no deal full Brexit , no Europe let’s go trump my let’s see what deal we can do . I genuinely don’t understand why you brexiteers get to dominate the debate .

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Being patriotic is not a little Englander ask the 17.4 million who voted Out that - sick of a berocratic EU.......
Who have proved that they like to bully countries.....

Q.E.D.

 

[TraffordBlue]

I understand leave won , if I didn’t its been repeated enough times in this thread to have been made pretty clear . Although a remainer I’ve tried to avoid being too supportive of the calls for a second referendum even though it’s something that might sort the mess out , because well you know will of the people and all that . Although obviously as the situation continues to unravel that might change .

I’ve said it hear before but it feels appropriate again , What I don’t understand is why those that voted leave and particularly those with the loudest voices seem able to decide exactly what type of Brexit they approve of. Because the referendum was so badly written we got in/out so we’ve got out , why do they get to say “not chequers it’s no good “ , “Norway no way “ etc . I don’t understand why their opinion on what kind of Brexit we have is apparently more valid than mine .
If we’d had a referendum with choices then it’d probably have split the vote and very possibly remain might have won , it didn’t . That being the case the type of Brexit we have is clearly up in the air and I believe my desire for the ‘softest ‘ possible Brexit is just as valid as joe’s or Petes . Obviously the government should cobble something together but whilst the debate is going on I don’t understand why everything that isn’t effectively a no deal Brexit or has super tacked in front of it is shouted down .

My take on it is that Cameron massively underestimated the power he was giving away by putting such a vote to the people. Many of which were unhappy with the way things have been going over the years, and were manipulated by a powerful but misleading idea put forward by certain people in authority. Those in support of it back then only thought about the "benefits" a Brexit would bring once it had been achieved, without paying much attention to how it could actually be delivered.

There never was a proper Brexit plan that could possibly work from the likes of Farage. It was let's get out, with no questions asked. The issue they have had is that questions must be asked, and these problems that have arisen as part of leaving won't go away. Which is why the deal we get will be far worse than just staying in the EU, whether that is chequers, hard brexit, and in particular no deal. There is no possible solution that will get people what they want due to the complications of leaving and us being 1 breakaway nation trying to take on and triumph over 27.

Most on the leave side know this, but want to play the blame game because they're frustrated that after getting their initial victory, there is no way they can win from this point. The rest of them are living in a fantasy world, where we hold all the cards, and try and make any doubters believe that we can just make demands to the EU and they should be glad to accept which obviously gets laughed off by any person who has given the subject any thought.

 

[Joey66]

Sorry mate I’m not getting into a Churchill debate , however i said in my post exactly what you said I’m not looking for a second vote .

Your hyperbole aside I believe My point still Stands , why does your we voted no deal full Brexit , no Europe let’s go trump my let’s see what deal we can do . I genuinely don’t understand why you brexiteers get to dominate the debate .

All three or four of us.....on this thread.....

 

[Joey66]

Q.E.D.

It has been proved the EU like to overturn the vote of a countries referendum on a few occasions- if they do it this time make it the 4th an unelected self appointed commissioner's like the Mafia.......
The day democracy in the U.K. will die if it happens!