Current Affairs EU In or Out

[The binman chronicles]

Its not a fantasy |Bruce our trade with the EU is shrinking - they export more to us than we do to them - too many students at universities leaving us with a skill shortage - fetch back vocational training in the workplace in all industries including the NHS nursing etc - that came from a father whose daughter has a degree, 2-1 and a masters degree and has struggled to get a vocation {has now} My son is better off with his vocational exams, and is on more pay......

All this stuff about skill shortages has got nothing to do with the EU. That was due to a push to allow more people attend universities, if kids are smart they will see that tradesmen often get more money than jobs that require degrees. Up to them isn't it.

 

[tommytowne]

All this stuff about skill shortages has got nothing to do with the EU. That was due to a push to allow more people attend universities, if kids are smart they will see that tradesmen often get more money than jobs that require degrees. Up to them isn't it.

Love this post.
Sadly, and this borne out by hearing the antics of other parents, lots of kids are now being tempted to go via the vocational route, but being overridden by their parents insisting that university is the holy grail.

 

[tommytowne]

It's just a silly game to you really isn't it. Get one over the remainers no matter what the consequences are for your country. So sad to see.

As somebody came right out yesterday and asked a direct question to me, can I do the same with you?
The consequences you speak of, did you know exactly what they would be, and if so, from where did you get your information?
No malice intended, just an honest question.

 

[Joey66]

All this stuff about skill shortages has got nothing to do with the EU. That was due to a push to allow more people attend universities, if kids are smart they will see that tradesmen often get more money than jobs that require degrees. Up to them isn't it.

Skill shortages means we need immigration which was at 45,000 in 1997 - we need imigration no doubts about it but the skill shortages have pushed the number up, and low paid wages even lower.......
Low paid jobs directly advertised in Europe is outrageous, and that came from the Labour Party........

 

[roydo]

As somebody came right out yesterday and asked a direct question to me, can I do the same with you?
The consequences you speak of, did you know exactly what they would be, and if so, from where did you get your information?
No malice intended, just an honest question.

I voted to stay mainly cos I quite like the free trade and movement of people. Less so the political side of the EU, but as long as we didnt adopt the Euro, the trade off, to me, was acceptable.

As for the consequences, I happily admit I didnt/dont have a clue. No one does. So I voted for something I could see, not the plainly daft claims made by folk like Boris and Farage.

 

[tommytowne]

I voted to stay mainly cos I quite like the free trade and movement of people. Less so the political side of the EU, but as long as we didnt adopt the Euro, the trade off, to me, was acceptable.

As for the consequences, I happily admit I didnt/dont have a clue. No one does. So I voted for something I could see, not the plainly daft claims made by folk like Boris and Farage.

Thanks for your thoughts.
It just shows you the thin dividing line between the opposing camps. I could agree with everything you've said.
To me though, it was the political element of the EU that I was railing against. It marginally trumped everything else.
With regards the consequences that are now apparent, which as far as I am concerned were not foreseen prior to the vote, for the life of me I'm of the opinion that there are some malicious forces in action to teach the UK and lesson.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I have always said I would be in favour of the above but the simple fact is if the EU gave that to the UK they are effectively ending the whole integrated EU project, so a good deal was never going to happen.

We either stay in the EU with all the (perceived) negatives (& could have dealt with the immigration issue in a more palatable way) or we take the Norway model and still have the same issues and a bit less benefits and being able to drive EU policies instead of just taking them.

If we stayed patient eventually change would have come as the bigger the EU gets the less likely it can keep control due to changing views of the population of all these nations.

It's worth remembering at times that the four freedoms of the EU are the free movement of goods, services, capital and people. All four are absolutely fundamental to our ability to trade effectively with the world, and it's crazy to suggest that we can somehow remove one of them and be as effective. There isn't an employer in the world that will say "we want a smaller talent pool to recruit from". Not one. Even today the Federation of Master Builders has come out and said that the building industry would be crippled if limits were put on immigration. No doubt Joe will say about builders taking advantage or lowering wages, but the FMB don't tend to have cowboy operations as members, so it's a crazy argument without any foundation.

As it is, policies to help regions adapt to changes in population numbers are already available, whether it's restrictions on access to welfare or funds to help regions adapt, but those weren't mentioned by Farage et al as it doesn't suit their agenda to blame everything on foreigners.

Its not a fantasy |Bruce our trade with the EU is shrinking - they export more to us than we do to them - too many students at universities leaving us with a skill shortage - fetch back vocational training in the workplace in all industries including the NHS nursing etc - that came from a father whose daughter has a degree, 2-1 and a masters degree and has struggled to get a vocation {has now} My son is better off with his vocational exams, and is on more pay......

It is a fantasy Joe as you claim to know more about what businesses want than the actual businesses themselves. It's an utter nonsense, just as your constant proclamations about what's best for nursing, despite you having zero experience of the healthcare industry whatsoever. The only thing worse than the barminess of it is your lack of appreciation for how barmy it is. Heck, you say in the post quoted above that vocational jobs are where all the money is, and then barely a few minutes later say that migration has pushed wages down in vocational jobs. It's incoherent.

 

[roydo]

I'm of the opinion that there are some malicious forces in action to teach the UK and lesson.

You may be right, and on a purely political level, you most certainly are. My hope is that the practical realities in the car plants in Germany and France, and the European owners of car production over here, hold some sway in the process, cos it isnt all one way traffic trade wise.

(I could add dozens of other EU based industries who quite like the coin they get from the UK, but I am sure you get the gist anyrate)

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You may be right, and on a purely political level, you most certainly are. My hope is that the practical realities in the car plants in Germany and France, and the European owners of car production over here, hold some sway in the process, cos it isnt all one way traffic trade wise.

(I could add dozens of other EU based industries who quite like the coin they get from the UK, but I am sure you get the gist anyrate)

It's been said so many times, but Germany, for instance, does a lot more trade with the rest of the EU than with the UK, so it's in Germany's interest for the EU to stay as open as it is at the moment. The same applies for France, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands etc. So whilst these regions would undoubtedly love to wake up tomorrow and this was all a bad dream, there is very little motivation to let the UK have its cake and eat it, because the setup of the EU as we speak is more valuable than what we offer. The German car industry has said pretty much exactly that, hence why they haven't broken ranks. Johnson et al sold people the pup that Europe would bow to the might of the UK, and he's been shown up.

We are, and have always been, much stronger as part of the EU than we are outside it.

 

[Ruairi77]

As somebody came right out yesterday and asked a direct question to me, can I do the same with you?
The consequences you speak of, did you know exactly what they would be, and if so, from where did you get your information?
No malice intended, just an honest question.

Not meaning to speak on behalf of Mark O'Silver but I think he, like me, is Irish. In the run up to the referendum there was very little positive brexit coverage in Ireland, and rightly so. With the exception of the UK, Ireland has the most to lose from Brexit. Our economy will be hit hard and for the first time in a generation there is a very real possibility of a return to violence. Any Irish person with any interest in Brexit was very well informed about how, yet again, the UK could make a decission that could be detrimental to Ireland.

 

[roydo]

It's been said so many times, but Germany, for instance, does a lot more trade with the rest of the EU than with the UK, so it's in Germany's interest for the EU to stay as open as it is at the moment. The same applies for France, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands etc. So whilst these regions would undoubtedly love to wake up tomorrow and this was all a bad dream, there is very little motivation to let the UK have its cake and eat it, because the setup of the EU as we speak is more valuable than what we offer. The German car industry has said pretty much exactly that, hence why they haven't broken ranks. Johnson et al sold people the pup that Europe would bow to the might of the UK, and he's been shown up.

We are, and have always been, much stronger as part of the EU than we are outside it.

Yeah, I know. It was more the point that this isnt just a political issue, there are mutual business concerns on both sides of the channel.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

"While we do think that EEA migration has had impacts, many of them seem to be small in magnitude when set against other changes. The fall in the value of the Pound after the referendum vote to leave the EU probably raised prices by 1.7 per cent - this is almost certainly a larger impact than the effect on wages and employment opportunities of residents from all the EEA migration since 2004, although over a different time period. "

This from the paper on migration published by the government today btw.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah, I know. It was more the point that this isnt just a political issue, there are mutual business concerns on both sides of the channel.

And prime among those concerns is access to talent. I challenge any Brexiteer to name a single industry that wants restrictions placed on who they can hire.

 

[dholliday]

I challenge any Brexiteer to name a single industry that wants restrictions placed on who they can hire.

aqueducts?

 

[Bruce Wayne]