Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Charlie Sweet]

@peteblue @Gwladysstreetlad @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

Out of interest have any of you lived in Europe or studied in Europe? Or even a gap year travelling?

With two daughters one of the (many) factors influencing my Remain vote was to seek to give them the chance to either study abroad full-time or, at least, to spend a year in Europe as part of their degrees.

I have never seen a Leave argument that says it won't be a lot tougher to study/work in Europe after Brexit. And that's without all the issues relating to the absence now of shared higher education funding and research programmes.

Do you speak any European languages? Everyone seems agreed that linguistic skills are key in the modern world and I can't think how much more difficult it would have been for me to become fluent in another language if I hadnt have spent a brilliant year there in 96 studying there.

Of course Chinese and Japanese and the like are very important languages but given we have Europe on our doorstep I can only share my personal experience that it was challenging enough for a 20 yr old living 2 hours away never mind 12+ hours away in a much more alien culture!

I'd love to hear your reasons why and how European travel and study is going to be better and easier after Brexit?!

 

[tsubaki]

Second you see a move towards a more federal Europe as a bad thing. I don't. I see it was a move towards positive involvement in areas I care passionately about such as the environment, higher education, scientific research, finance markets and workers rights. Even something like an EU defence force has many benefits in my eyes. However I recognise that for many "Proud English" these are all.moves away from their concept of an independent England (formerly the centre of the great British Empire)

TBH the ideal of a federal Europe is where most of the problems with the EU stem from; it basically guarantees a glacial pace of change, the continued survival of nation-states and creates a whole load of proto-federal institiutions that ape what their US equivalent does but with nothing really to do except get in the way of reform.

What the EU should be looking to develop into is a unitary state in the way that the UK is; we are after all by far the most politically stable state in Europe. Start teaching every child in the EU one language as well as their own (my preference would be Latin), start agreeing common defence, welfare, taxation, employment and healthcare policies and identify common criminal and civil law codes (which is a lot less difficult than it sounds, though the Napoleonic Code would have to be binned) and you could have an actual European state within five or six years that would be a vast improvement on what we have now.

 

[peteblue]

Pete you really are a national treasure aren't you?!?

Yes the young want to embrace opportunity across the side world - they just don't see the need to turn our back on the rest of Europe in the process!

Yes the young want the opportunty to go to university in the UK but what on earth has that got to do with you wanting to rule out the chance for them to either attend full time, or just spend a year or two, at European universities.

On the voting metrics my point is valid. The fact alone that the older generation are easier to turn out in the droves and vote (well hey they do have a lot of time on their hands!) is an unfortunate reality and clearly affected the vote.

Actually throw in there that the unemployed and those on benefits also have plenty of time and overwhelmingly voted to Leave is also worth considering.

We are not turning our back on Europe, we just won’t be part of their political union.......

 

[peteblue]

Lol. There isn't a single analysis that thinks leave voters want open borders and open markets, due in large part because many have struggled with what we have. But yes, they are fearless globalists lol.

Well I am.......

 

[Joey66]

@peteblue @Gwladysstreetlad @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

Out of interest have any of you lived in Europe or studied in Europe? Or even a gap year travelling?

With two daughters one of the (many) factors influencing my Remain vote was to seek to give them the chance to either study abroad full-time or, at least, to spend a year in Europe as part of their degrees.

I have never seen a Leave argument that says it won't be a lot tougher to study/work in Europe after Brexit. And that's without all the issues relating to the absence now of shared higher education funding and research programmes.

Do you speak any European languages? Everyone seems agreed that linguistic skills are key in the modern world and I can't think how much more difficult it would have been for me to become fluent in another language if I hadnt have spent a brilliant year there in 96 studying there.

Of course Chinese and Japanese and the like are very important languages but given we have Europe on our doorstep I can only share my personal experience that it was challenging enough for a 20 yr old living 2 hours away never mind 12+ hours away in a much more alien culture!

I'd love to hear your reasons why and how European travel and study is going to be better and easier after Brexit?!

What the hell has that got to do with the EU both my children have been to Paris - the parisiasians awful millitant people v the English - rude- pig ignorant that was their good points I was told outside Paris the French people were far nicer
Again though what has that got to do with the EU elite in a polictical currupt union???....

 

[Old Blue 2]

@peteblue @Gwladysstreetlad @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

Out of interest have any of you lived in Europe or studied in Europe? Or even a gap year travelling?

With two daughters one of the (many) factors influencing my Remain vote was to seek to give them the chance to either study abroad full-time or, at least, to spend a year in Europe as part of their degrees.

I have never seen a Leave argument that says it won't be a lot tougher to study/work in Europe after Brexit. And that's without all the issues relating to the absence now of shared higher education funding and research programmes.

Do you speak any European languages? Everyone seems agreed that linguistic skills are key in the modern world and I can't think how much more difficult it would have been for me to become fluent in another language if I hadnt have spent a brilliant year there in 96 studying there.

Of course Chinese and Japanese and the like are very important languages but given we have Europe on our doorstep I can only share my personal experience that it was challenging enough for a 20 yr old living 2 hours away never mind 12+ hours away in a much more alien culture!

I'd love to hear your reasons why and how European travel and study is going to be better and easier after Brexit?!

I will provide a limited answer to the above. Some on here who know the additional information will fill in the gaps for themselves. Taking your paragraphs in sequence.

1. Never lived or studied in Europe. However in the 1980s and 1990s I travelled a couple of times a year to Germany for a week or more on projects that I still work on up to present.

2. While it is nice for someone to study abroad, it is not (as I have said in a previous post) the be-all-and-end-all of education or work.

3. See '2' above.

4. I took French for 7 years at school up to 'A' level. I took German for 2 1/2 years at night school and picked up quite a lot more during my travels to Germany as mentioned above. I still use German up to present. If I were to go there, I think within a couple of days I would get by OK.

5. This is a personal statement, Charlie, so it needs no further comment from me.

6. Who has said European travel would get better after Brexit? It will probably go onto the same basis as travel to non-EU countried at present. That is all.

If you open up your PM/conversation on here, I can message you with more info.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

@peteblue @Gwladysstreetlad @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

Out of interest have any of you lived in Europe or studied in Europe? Or even a gap year travelling?

The opportunity never really presented itself or even occurred to me if I'm honest. I left school and went straight into work. Holidays were a rare luxury for me, I travelled a bit with my parents as a kid but was only able to start travelling abroad again once I was financially secure enough to do in the last couple of years. I have visted a fair bit of Europe though, perticuarly Germany. The idea of living abroad has never really appealed to me if I'm honest as after a few weeks anywhere I always long for home.

With two daughters one of the (many) factors influencing my Remain vote was to seek to give them the chance to either study abroad full-time or, at least, to spend a year in Europe as part of their degrees.

I have never seen a Leave argument that says it won't be a lot tougher to study/work in Europe after Brexit. And that's without all the issues relating to the absence now of shared higher education funding and research programmes.

For what it's worth pal, I very much doubt we will see the end of freedom of moment. The "negotiations" will end with us all carrying on as though the vote never took place but high words will be thrown about and impressive sounding arguments will be used for Taresa May to claim victory when she has in fact achieved anything but that.

I do believe though that people used to travel, study and work all around Europe prior to our joining the EU. Plenty of Americans and other non EU people travel all over the world to work and study and manage ok.

Do you speak any European languages? Everyone seems agreed that linguistic skills are key in the modern world and I can't think how much more difficult it would have been for me to become fluent in another language if I hadnt have spent a brilliant year there in 96 studying there.

Of course Chinese and Japanese and the like are very important languages but given we have Europe on our doorstep I can only share my personal experience that it was challenging enough for a 20 yr old living 2 hours away never mind 12+ hours away in a much more alien culture!

I'd love to hear your reasons why and how European travel and study is going to be better and easier after Brexit?!

I can speak enough (very) basic German and French enough to be understood but thats about as far as I ever got. If i had the time to learn a new language though I'd sooner it be Chinese, Hindi or Arabic as if we are going to talk about the future I believe these languages will be a corner stone for buissness. Not to mention the fact that I find the idea of learning somthing more alian (as you put it) fascinating.

I doubt European travel will be any more difficult after the non-event of Brexit for the reason I gave above.

 

[peteblue]

@peteblue @Gwladysstreetlad @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

Out of interest have any of you lived in Europe or studied in Europe? Or even a gap year travelling?

With two daughters one of the (many) factors influencing my Remain vote was to seek to give them the chance to either study abroad full-time or, at least, to spend a year in Europe as part of their degrees.

I have never seen a Leave argument that says it won't be a lot tougher to study/work in Europe after Brexit. And that's without all the issues relating to the absence now of shared higher education funding and research programmes.

Do you speak any European languages? Everyone seems agreed that linguistic skills are key in the modern world and I can't think how much more difficult it would have been for me to become fluent in another language if I hadnt have spent a brilliant year there in 96 studying there.

Of course Chinese and Japanese and the like are very important languages but given we have Europe on our doorstep I can only share my personal experience that it was challenging enough for a 20 yr old living 2 hours away never mind 12+ hours away in a much more alien culture!

I'd love to hear your reasons why and how European travel and study is going to be better and easier after Brexit?!

I have spent probably 25% of my working life in Europe, 15% in the USA and 10% in China, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Africa, India etc. The other 50% I just wasted away in different parts of the U.K.

I studied French, Latin, Spanish and Greek formally and Italian, German and Japanese through work. I am crap at languages, I know I am crap.

3 of my 4 children are married to an American, a Romanian, and a Philippine. Oh and 2 of them have lived abroad for years....

We all hold degrees and higher degrees

Nobody said European travel or study would be easier, but neither will it become impossible.

I have dealt with many differing cultures on a regular basis, I managed and oversaw globally based multi cultural hi tech development programmes for over 40 years.

Now, what was your point again........

 

[peteblue]

In the telegraph......someone has twigged what myself and others said before the vote took place......

An MEP colleague, former head of German industry through the BDI, recently announced that German business is "panicking" about the possibility of a no deal with the UK. He says the EU is only just waking up to the fact a post-Brexit UK will become the largest market for the rest of the EU.

In the referendum, the notion the EU needed the UK market much was mocked, but now the cold factual reality is setting in.

The UK is not some sad little island but the sixth largest economy in the world, has the largest financial centre in the world, and is the second largest importer after the USA........

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I'm going to try and call it now. Brexit will not happen.

Anna Soubry coming out today and basically saying she's on the verge of quitting due to the hard Brexit nutcases on her party's right wing. The political balance in the Commons is so tight that you probably only need 20 or so of these 'sensible' Tories to come out against a hard Brexit and the whole thing falls apart. On the Labour side there's what - maybe 5 or so hard brexiteers like Kate Hoey etc. The DUP/Tory confidence and supply arrangement is already shot below the water line.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42955553

The Labour party will go into a snap election united under Corbyn (never thought I'd say that). The Tories are split and UKIP is a spent force. The Lib Dems and all of the nationalists are pro-EU.

I believe we'll end up with a second referendum - after Corbyn puts the brakes on Article 50 and a few nominal immigration concessions are given (it was always about immigration) - and we'll happily vote to Remain in a slightly reformed EU.

 

[Old Blue 2]

So what Anna Soubry says is the catalyst for Brexit not happening...?

'Hard' & 'soft' Brexit are media terms that bear no reality to the actual processes involved in detaching from the EU. Soundbites in other words. But cling on to such things, Charlie, if that makes you feel better...

 

[Joey66]

I'm going to try and call it now. Brexit will not happen.

Anna Soubry coming out today and basically saying she's on the verge of quitting due to the hard Brexit nutcases on her party's right wing. The political balance in the Commons is so tight that you probably only need 20 or so of these 'sensible' Tories to come out against a hard Brexit and the whole thing falls apart. On the Labour side there's what - maybe 5 or so hard brexiteers like Kate Hoey etc. The DUP/Tory confidence and supply arrangement is already shot below the water line.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42955553

The Labour party will go into a snap election united under Corbyn (never thought I'd say that). The Tories are split and UKIP is a spent force. The Lib Dems and all of the nationalists are pro-EU.

I believe we'll end up with a second referendum - after Corbyn puts the brakes on Article 50 and a few nominal immigration concessions are given (it was always about immigration) - and we'll happily vote to Remain in a slightly reformed EU.

Check on Anna Soubry constituency they voted Out- a cow of a women hope she joins the LibDems and goes into the Polictical wilderness where the cow belongs!
Joke of a politician!

 

[neil999]

Check on Anna Soubry constituency they voted Out- a cow of a women hope she joins the LibDems and goes into the Polictical wilderness where the cow belongs!
Joke of a politician!

She is sticking to what she believes in....

 

[Joey66]

She is sticking to what she believes in....

But not the referendum result nor her own constituency brilliant democracy at work she is poisen- her interview after the result was to honour the vote the two faced cow!

 

[neil999]

But not the referendum result nor her own constituency brilliant democracy at work she is poisen- her interview after the result was to honour the vote the two faced cow!

So every mp should vote how their constituency has voted?