Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Charlie Sweet]

I still believe that Remain voters do not or will not understand why people voted to Leave. I keep seeing reports that it was mostly older people who voted to leave, older people tend not to be quite as gullible as those with less experience of life....

Older generations are also more affected by the post-war era of Rule Britannia and the British Empire. You know....Great Britain standing proudly alone to defeat the cursed hun and save the world from tyranny....Younger generations don't have that view and see no shame in Britain being part of an aggregated Europe.

Also a lot of the older generation, by definition, have their careers behind them. They see strange accents in the supermarket and can recoil from the sense of society changing fast at a time when they are least able to keep up. By contrast younger generations see untold opportunity in shaping their careers in the context of being part of the most powerful and diverse economic trading block on the planet. For a few years more at least the young in Britian can easily go to any University across Europe. I, and millions of others in their more middle years(!) can easily go out and establish businesses that transcend national boundaries.

Given the much higher voting rates amongst the older generation then Remain never stood a chance of winning a referendum.

But Remain was, and is, in the national interest and I do firmly believe we will either have a second referendum where the young are so motivated that the result will be different or the government will take us out of the EU in name only.

 

[Joey66]

Older generations are also more affected by the post-war era of Rule Britannia and the British Empire. You know....Great Britain standing proudly alone to defeat the cursed hun and save the world from tyranny....Younger generations don't have that view and see no shame in Britain being part of an aggregated Europe.

Also a lot of the older generation, by definition, have their careers behind them. They see strange accents in the supermarket and can recoil from the sense of society changing fast at a time when they are least able to keep up. By contrast younger generations see untold opportunity in shaping their careers in the context of being part of the most powerful and diverse economic trading block on the planet. For a few years more at least the young in Britian can easily go to any University across Europe. I, and millions of others in their more middle years(!) can easily go out and establish businesses that transcend national boundaries.

Given the much higher voting rates amongst the older generation then Remain never stood a chance of winning a referendum.

But Remain was, and is, in the national interest and I do firmly believe we will either have a second referendum where the young are so motivated that the result will be different or the government will take us out of the EU in name only.

Remain was a vote for getting rippped off by this corrupt organisation look what they did to Greece!

 

[Old Blue 2]

Older generations are also more affected by the post-war era of Rule Britannia and the British Empire. You know....Great Britain standing proudly alone to defeat the cursed hun and save the world from tyranny....Younger generations don't have that view and see no shame in Britain being part of an aggregated Europe.

Also a lot of the older generation, by definition, have their careers behind them. They see strange accents in the supermarket and can recoil from the sense of society changing fast at a time when they are least able to keep up. By contrast younger generations see untold opportunity in shaping their careers in the context of being part of the most powerful and diverse economic trading block on the planet. For a few years more at least the young in Britian can easily go to any University across Europe. I, and millions of others in their more middle years(!) can easily go out and establish businesses that transcend national boundaries.

Given the much higher voting rates amongst the older generation then Remain never stood a chance of winning a referendum.

But Remain was, and is, in the national interest and I do firmly believe we will either have a second referendum where the young are so motivated that the result will be different or the government will take us out of the EU in name only.

I have to disagree, Charlie, for the following reasons. I was going to post this in the long post I put up last night, but felt that post was long enough, and the following was tangential to the main point. By the way, it has nothing to do with 'Rule Brittania' or the 'British Empire', or 'standing alone' to save the world from tyranny at all.

Those of the older generation such as myself lived through probably the greatest changes since WW2 in the 1960s, when I was a teenager. We took in our stride rapid changes, and I would suggest the like of which has never been seen since. Just compare 1960 to 1070, for example. So the generation I belong to have a lot of life experience, have become comfortable with change over the decades, and are not afraid of it. I form the impression from talking to younger generations (and I do so on a regular basis through gigging and jam sessions) that there appears to be an inate fear of change in the slightest. What is one of the trueisms of life is that things NEVER stand still - it seems to me that too many want to remain in the blanket of the status quo for fear of change. I believe people of my generation are not afraid of it - we are used to embracing it. The be-all-and-end-all of careers is not totally across nation boundaries, nor universities - that is, I would proffer, the opportunity ofr the minority, not the majority, of workers in the UK, and is therefore not a valid premise to advance. Businesses have crossed national boundaries for decades, even centuries. Read up on medieval trading history to see what I mean.

I would also venture to suggest that the older generation, having the life experience I mentioned earlier, and the lack of fear of change I mentioned above, saw in the EU an organisation that was stealthily moving towards a European nation state which, as I mentioned in my long post (I'm not sure whether you have read it or not) appears to be going along the road of subsuming everything to its will. Perhaps us oldies are more cynical; not so easily conned; look into things in greater depth to arrive at a more studied judgement. I know when I was in my late-teens/early twenties it was life in the first lane for me (sometimes down the middle of the bloody dual carriageway, but that's another story, Charlie!), and I concede I gave nowhere near the amount of consideration to issues, both local, national and global, that I do today. I would say that applies equally to the youth of today, and I would not wish to change that for one second for them. I see the maturity, knowledge, and life experience of older people as the counter-balance to the 100 mph life of the young - I see that now in my 13 year old grandson.

Contrary to your last paragraph, I therefore believe that leaving the EU is in the best UK interest.

We will agree to disagree, Charlie, but at least I have stated the opposite case from the point of view of one pensioner, in spite of the fact that in my head I'm still that mad [Poor language removed] 21 year old gigging 20 times a month as well as holding down a full-time job!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I have to disagree, Charlie, for the following reasons. I was going to post this in the long post I put up last night, but felt that post was long enough, and the following was tangential to the main point. By the way, it has nothing to do with 'Rule Brittania' or the 'British Empire', or 'standing alone' to save the world from tyranny at all.

Those of the older generation such as myself lived through probably the greatest changes since WW2 in the 1960s, when I was a teenager. We took in our stride rapid changes, and I would suggest the like of which has never been seen since. Just compare 1960 to 1070, for example. So the generation I belong to have a lot of life experience, have become comfortable with change over the decades, and are not afraid of it. I form the impression from talking to younger generations (and I do so on a regular basis through gigging and jam sessions) that there appears to be an inate fear of change in the slightest. What is one of the trueisms of life is that things NEVER stand still - it seems to me that too many want to remain in the blanket of the status quo for fear of change. I believe people of my generation are not afraid of it - we are used to embracing it. The be-all-and-end-all of careers is not totally across nation boundaries, nor universities - that is, I would proffer, the opportunity ofr the minority, not the majority, of workers in the UK, and is therefore not a valid premise to advance. Businesses have crossed national boundaries for decades, even centuries. Read up on medieval trading history to see what I mean.

I would also venture to suggest that the older generation, having the life experience I mentioned earlier, and the lack of fear of change I mentioned above, saw in the EU an organisation that was stealthily moving towards a European nation state which, as I mentioned in my long post (I'm not sure whether you have read it or not) appears to be going along the road of subsuming everything to its will. Perhaps us oldies are more cynical; not so easily conned; look into things in greater depth to arrive at a more studied judgement. I know when I was in my late-teens/early twenties it was life in the first lane for me (sometimes down the middle of the bloody dual carriageway, but that's another story, Charlie!), and I concede I gave nowhere near the amount of consideration to issues, both local, national and global, that I do today. I would say that applies equally to the youth of today, and I would not wish to change that for one second for them. I see the maturity, knowledge, and life experience of older people as the counter-balance to the 100 mph life of the young - I see that now in my 13 year old grandson.

Contrary to your last paragraph, I therefore believe that leaving the EU is in the best UK interest.

We will agree to disagree, Charlie, but at least I have stated the opposite case from the point of view of one pensioner, in spite of the fact that in my head I'm still that mad [Poor language removed] 21 year old gigging 20 times a month as well as holding down a full-time job!

The young are afraid of change? Just think of the amount of technological change that has largely been taken in their stride, or the rise in new forms of working like the gig economy. They've taken to these like a duck to water generally. They've also largely taken to the demographic changes to the UK wrought by free movement across the EU much better than their elder peers and in large part feel very sad that such diversity and opportunity is being clamped down on by those who don't value it so highly.

I've said here many (many) times that nearly every analysis not only of this issue but of societal values throughout Europe (Geert Hofstede is the master but there are others) has found that there is profound convergence based upon where you live, with city dwellers across Europe sharing a large number of personality traits, including confidence, outward looking, accepting of diversity. These characteristics transcend such old fashioned identifiers as race, nationality or gender and have come to typify the 'citizens of nowhere' that May actively riled against.

It's no surprise, therefore, that Brexiteers come from small towns (by and large), just as voters for Trump, Le Pen, Zeman, Wilders et al all come from small towns who don't like globalisation and want to shut it down. This image you have of Brexiteers as modern day Walter Raleigh type figures is off the mark as far as every single analyses of the vote has shown. You talking to some people at gigs doesn't change that any more than us talking to you, Pete and Joey and therefore assuming that all Brexiteers are white pensioners. You've decried previous efforts to actually study this due to them not talking to every single voter, yet are happy to form your own opinions based upon an even smaller and even less representative sample.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

The young are afraid of change? Just think of the amount of technological change that has largely been taken in their stride, or the rise in new forms of working like the gig economy. They've taken to these like a duck to water generally. They've also largely taken to the demographic changes to the UK wrought by free movement across the EU much better than their elder peers and in large part feel very sad that such diversity and opportunity is being clamped down on by those who don't value it so highly.

I've said here many (many) times that nearly every analysis not only of this issue but of societal values throughout Europe (Geert Hofstede is the master but there are others) has found that there is profound convergence based upon where you live, with city dwellers across Europe sharing a large number of personality traits, including confidence, outward looking, accepting of diversity. These characteristics transcend such old fashioned identifiers as race, nationality or gender and have come to typify the 'citizens of nowhere' that May actively riled against.

It's no surprise, therefore, that Brexiteers come from small towns (by and large), just as voters for Trump, Le Pen, Zeman, Wilders et al all come from small towns who don't like globalisation and want to shut it down. This image you have of Brexiteers as modern day Walter Raleigh type figures is off the mark as far as every single analyses of the vote has shown. You talking to some people at gigs doesn't change that any more than us talking to you, Pete and Joey and therefore assuming that all Brexiteers are white pensioners. You've decried previous efforts to actually study this due to them not talking to every single voter, yet are happy to form your own opinions based upon an even smaller and even less representative sample.

Great post and I agree completely. Thanks also though to @Old Blue 2 for your response to my post. As Bruce says I do think you are in the minority on the Brexit side.

For about 3 years before the EU referendum and a year after it I had a major part of my business in Lincolnshire. As a region the whole of the East of England (save for the university towns) voted massively to Leave. Why? Because I wager they were fed up with their lives, had nothing much going on and blaming the EU and buying into a UKIP vision was simple escapism.

Those with skills and education leave the likes of Lincolnshire in their droves. Those that are left behind turn their noses up at manual work in the fields so a huge section of that society is now East Europeans doing the very essential work that the whole region's agricultural economy relies on. You couldn't make it up. I know a number of big business owners in Lincs tearing their hair out at what's happened.

Likewise away from rural areas it was the depressed towns and suburbs of the coubtry that voted to Leave.

Personally I'm just proud that parts of the country I have connections to - Liverpool, Ireland (or rather the Irish community across the UK), Cambridge and N Wales all voted to Remain

 

[Old Blue 2]

Great post and I agree completely. Thanks also though to @Old Blue 2 for your response to my post. As Bruce says I do think you are in the minority on the Brexit side.

For about 3 years before the EU referendum and a year after it I had a major part of my business in Lincolnshire. As a region the whole of the East of England (save for the university towns) voted massively to Leave. Why? Because I wager they were fed up with their lives, had nothing much going on and blaming the EU and buying into a UKIP vision was simple escapism.

Those with skills and education leave the likes of Lincolnshire in their droves. Those that are left behind turn their noses up at manual work in the fields so a huge section of that society is now East Europeans doing the very essential work that the whole region's agricultural economy relies on. You couldn't make it up. I know a number of big business owners in Lincs tearing their hair out at what's happened.

Likewise away from rural areas it was the depressed towns and suburbs of the coubtry that voted to Leave.

Personally I'm just proud that parts of the country I have connections to - Liverpool, Ireland (or rather the Irish community across the UK), Cambridge and N Wales all voted to Remain

Charlie,
Thanks for your reasoned reply - appreciated.
Living in Norfolk (after over 36 years in Liverpool), I understand what you say about rural areas. That move was one BIG culture shock for me and the family initially! I did a couple of gigs some years ago at a big farm which employed foreign workers in rural Norfolk. What I found out from chatting to them was that they were on very low wages (minimum wage?), worked 12-hour days, and were housed in basic accommodation. What did that tell me? Well, anyone who reads this post can make their own minds up - I think it veers towards exploitation of the young. Also, they told me a lot of ther dosh gets transferred to their bank accounts back home. Why? Cos when they have enough, they sod off back home to wherever and the money saved pays for their university tuition fees. Enterprising - yes, certainly. Taking advantage of the UK - make your own mind up... I think post-Brexit, we will enter a situation where we have skills shortage in certain areas, and those with those skills will be able to come to the country and employ those skills to mutual benefit. It's call 'mutual back-scratching' and will range from high-tech jobs down to those your & I have mentioned in the agricultural economy. I think it is the kind of thing that has always gone on.

Personally, I'm proud that there were sufficient in the UK with the balls to tell the EU that they didn't buy into their all-encompassing 'European nation state' ambitions! If any proof were needed of just how much sway we had/have in the EU, cast your mind back to Cameron going over the EU HQ a few weeks before the Referendum and saying he would come back with all kinds of concessions and great deals for the UK. He basically came back with his tail between his legs and with absolutely nothing of substance, yet tried to dress it up as some kind of victory. Did he really think the mass of the country believed him?

 

[Old Blue 2]

The young are afraid of change? Just think of the amount of technological change that has largely been taken in their stride, or the rise in new forms of working like the gig economy. They've taken to these like a duck to water generally. They've also largely taken to the demographic changes to the UK wrought by free movement across the EU much better than their elder peers and in large part feel very sad that such diversity and opportunity is being clamped down on by those who don't value it so highly.

I've said here many (many) times that nearly every analysis not only of this issue but of societal values throughout Europe (Geert Hofstede is the master but there are others) has found that there is profound convergence based upon where you live, with city dwellers across Europe sharing a large number of personality traits, including confidence, outward looking, accepting of diversity. These characteristics transcend such old fashioned identifiers as race, nationality or gender and have come to typify the 'citizens of nowhere' that May actively riled against.

It's no surprise, therefore, that Brexiteers come from small towns (by and large), just as voters for Trump, Le Pen, Zeman, Wilders et al all come from small towns who don't like globalisation and want to shut it down. This image you have of Brexiteers as modern day Walter Raleigh type figures is off the mark as far as every single analyses of the vote has shown. You talking to some people at gigs doesn't change that any more than us talking to you, Pete and Joey and therefore assuming that all Brexiteers are white pensioners. You've decried previous efforts to actually study this due to them not talking to every single voter, yet are happy to form your own opinions based upon an even smaller and even less representative sample.

Bruce,
A short reply, because we have gone over the same ground many times, and you just repeat, and repeat, and repeat. Yes I have given my opinion, and I claim nothing more than that. Opinion, and personal experience. You, however, always talk in absolutes, as if what you say is set in stone (societal values, blah, blah).

And you have to differentiate between me stating a personal opiinion, and those we see on TV who state quite categorically that this and this and this is going to happen. They are no more informed than anyone else. The top man at the Bank of England being a prime example, who has made a complete arsehole of himself on more than one occasion when he has opened his mouth since the Referendum result... Osbourne with his threat of a swingeing budget against ordinary people if the vote was to leave was another. And we know what happened to him...

Keep ploughing your singular furrow, Bruce (no agricultural pun intended, given my previous post!).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Charlie,
Thanks for your reasoned reply - appreciated.
Living in Norfolk (after over 36 years in Liverpool), I understand what you say about rural areas. That move was one BIG culture shock for me and the family initially! I did a couple of gigs some years ago at a big farm which employed foreign workers in rural Norfolk. What I found out from chatting to them was that they were on very low wages (minimum wage?), worked 12-hour days, and were housed in basic accommodation. What did that tell me? Well, anyone who reads this post can make their own minds up - I think it veers towards exploitation of the young. Also, they told me a lot of ther dosh gets transferred to their bank accounts back home. Why? Cos when they have enough, they sod off back home to wherever and the money saved pays for their university tuition fees. Enterprising - yes, certainly. Taking advantage of the UK - make your own mind up... I think post-Brexit, we will enter a situation where we have skills shortage in certain areas, and those with those skills will be able to come to the country and employ those skills to mutual benefit. It's call 'mutual back-scratching' and will range from high-tech jobs down to those your & I have mentioned in the agricultural economy. I think it is the kind of thing that has always gone on.

Personally, I'm proud that there were sufficient in the UK with the balls to tell the EU that they didn't buy into their all-encompassing 'European nation state' ambitions! If any proof were needed of just how much sway we had/have in the EU, cast your mind back to Cameron going over the EU HQ a few weeks before the Referendum and saying he would come back with all kinds of concessions and great deals for the UK. He basically came back with his tail between his legs and with absolutely nothing of substance, yet tried to dress it up as some kind of victory. Did he really think the mass of the country believed him?

Without resorting to Google, what were those concessions?

 

[Old Blue 2]

Without resorting to Google, what were those concessions?

You tell me, Bruce. You appear to be one of the fanboys of Cameron's remain campaign. I thought you would know. I paid it little attention at the time when he said we have gained such-and-such, which amounted to next to nothing. Wasn't it something to do with not paying state benefits until a certain amount of time had elapsed? The guy was a liar and a fraud, just like his Chancellor. He was basically batted away by the EU big-wigs.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Charlie,
Thanks for your reasoned reply - appreciated.
Living in Norfolk (after over 36 years in Liverpool), I understand what you say about rural areas. That move was one BIG culture shock for me and the family initially! I did a couple of gigs some years ago at a big farm which employed foreign workers in rural Norfolk. What I found out from chatting to them was that they were on very low wages (minimum wage?), worked 12-hour days, and were housed in basic accommodation. What did that tell me? Well, anyone who reads this post can make their own minds up - I think it veers towards exploitation of the young. Also, they told me a lot of ther dosh gets transferred to their bank accounts back home. Why? Cos when they have enough, they sod off back home to wherever and the money saved pays for their university tuition fees. Enterprising - yes, certainly. Taking advantage of the UK - make your own mind up... I think post-Brexit, we will enter a situation where we have skills shortage in certain areas, and those with those skills will be able to come to the country and employ those skills to mutual benefit. It's call 'mutual back-scratching' and will range from high-tech jobs down to those your & I have mentioned in the agricultural economy. I think it is the kind of thing that has always gone on.

Personally, I'm proud that there were sufficient in the UK with the balls to tell the EU that they didn't buy into their all-encompassing 'European nation state' ambitions! If any proof were needed of just how much sway we had/have in the EU, cast your mind back to Cameron going over the EU HQ a few weeks before the Referendum and saying he would come back with all kinds of concessions and great deals for the UK. He basically came back with his tail between his legs and with absolutely nothing of substance, yet tried to dress it up as some kind of victory. Did he really think the mass of the country believed him?

Thanks for the reply. Just two quick points.

The model of EU workers in this country you describe is one I agree with..But I don't see anything wrong with it and I totally admire them for their hard work and pursuit of a better life. I don't see how it will change post Brexit though as the work is essential and you can bet that Wayne and Waynetta won't give up their benefits lightly to get up at 5am every day.

Second you see a move towards a more federal Europe as a bad thing. I don't. I see it was a move towards positive involvement in areas I care passionately about such as the environment, higher education, scientific research, finance markets and workers rights. Even something like an EU defence force has many benefits in my eyes. However I recognise that for many "Proud English" these are all.moves away from their concept of an independent England (formerly the centre of the great British Empire)

 

[Charlie Sweet]

You tell me, Bruce. You appear to be one of the fanboys of Cameron's remain campaign. I thought you would know. I paid it little attention at the time when he said we have gained such-and-such, which amounted to next to nothing. Wasn't it something to do with not paying state benefits until a certain amount of time had elapsed? The guy was a liar and a fraud, just like his Chancellor. He was basically batted away by the EU big-wigs.

Cameron's deal will be seen by history as being a hell of a lot better than what we will end up with under Brexit - of that you can be sure!

 

[Old Blue 2]

Thanks for the reply. Just two quick points.

The model of EU workers in this country you describe is one I agree with..But I don't see anything wrong with it and I totally admire them for their hard work and pursuit of a better life. I don't see how it will change post Brexit though as the work is essential and you can bet that Wayne and Waynetta won't give up their benefits lightly to get up at 5am every day.

Second you see a move towards a more federal Europe as a bad thing. I don't. I see it was a move towards positive involvement in areas I care passionately about such as the environment, higher education, scientific research, finance markets and workers rights. Even something like an EU defence force has many benefits in my eyes. However I recognise that for many "Proud English" these are all.moves away from their concept of an independent England (formerly the centre of the great British Empire)

Charlie,
Totally agree with your first paragraph.

I understand where you are coming from with your second paragraph. That the world moves on, and you see a more global approach to many, if not most, things is the way forward (am I correct here?). Others, like myself, do not see that as necessarily the better way forward. I do not believe global domination in a whole raft of things is a good idea. Witness the stranglehold someone like Murdoch already has over the media. Is that a good thing? Personally, I think not. The overarching domination/control of all things by a central EU hierarchy is the kind of thing Adolf would have rubbed his hands in glee at. Same thing, different approach. Think about it... (And I'm not being jingoistic when I say that - it's a case of a hard-headed assessment of what was attempted, and what is possibly likely to be)

 

[peteblue]

Older generations are also more affected by the post-war era of Rule Britannia and the British Empire. You know....Great Britain standing proudly alone to defeat the cursed hun and save the world from tyranny....Younger generations don't have that view and see no shame in Britain being part of an aggregated Europe.

Also a lot of the older generation, by definition, have their careers behind them. They see strange accents in the supermarket and can recoil from the sense of society changing fast at a time when they are least able to keep up. By contrast younger generations see untold opportunity in shaping their careers in the context of being part of the most powerful and diverse economic trading block on the planet. For a few years more at least the young in Britian can easily go to any University across Europe. I, and millions of others in their more middle years(!) can easily go out and establish businesses that transcend national boundaries.

Given the much higher voting rates amongst the older generation then Remain never stood a chance of winning a referendum.

But Remain was, and is, in the national interest and I do firmly believe we will either have a second referendum where the young are so motivated that the result will be different or the government will take us out of the EU in name only.

See strange accents, is this the bright new generation....

Younger generations see untold opportunity......so you can see that in Europe but somehow are unable or too afraid to see it in the rest of the world....

The young can go to universities in Europe.......you do know that we have quite a few decent ones in the U.K.....well we must have consideraing the numbers of foreign students desperate to pay to go to them.....

Remain never stood a chance of winning......so now it’s the fault of Leave that remainers could not be bothered voting, even though everyone loves Europe and it would be terrible if we left, whinge, whinge, whinge...this shows just how weak and feeble today’s youth have become, no wonder you are frightened of the big bad world.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

See strange accents, is this the bright new generation....

Younger generations see untold opportunity......so you can see that in Europe but somehow are unable or too afraid to see it in the rest of the world....

The young can go to universities in Europe.......you do know that we have quite a few decent ones in the U.K.....well we must have consideraing the numbers of foreign students desperate to pay to go to them.....

Remain never stood a chance of winning......so now it’s the fault of Leave that remainers could not be bothered voting, even though everyone loves Europe and it would be terrible if we left, whinge, whinge, whinge...this shows just how weak and feeble today’s youth have become, no wonder you are frightened of the big bad world.....

Lol. There isn't a single analysis that thinks leave voters want open borders and open markets, due in large part because many have struggled with what we have. But yes, they are fearless globalists lol.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

See strange accents, is this the bright new generation....

Younger generations see untold opportunity......so you can see that in Europe but somehow are unable or too afraid to see it in the rest of the world....

The young can go to universities in Europe.......you do know that we have quite a few decent ones in the U.K.....well we must have consideraing the numbers of foreign students desperate to pay to go to them.....

Remain never stood a chance of winning......so now it’s the fault of Leave that remainers could not be bothered voting, even though everyone loves Europe and it would be terrible if we left, whinge, whinge, whinge...this shows just how weak and feeble today’s youth have become, no wonder you are frightened of the big bad world.....

Pete you really are a national treasure aren't you?!?

Yes the young want to embrace opportunity across the side world - they just don't see the need to turn our back on the rest of Europe in the process!

Yes the young want the opportunty to go to university in the UK but what on earth has that got to do with you wanting to rule out the chance for them to either attend full time, or just spend a year or two, at European universities.

On the voting metrics my point is valid. The fact alone that the older generation are easier to turn out in the droves and vote (well hey they do have a lot of time on their hands!) is an unfortunate reality and clearly affected the vote.

Actually throw in there that the unemployed and those on benefits also have plenty of time and overwhelmingly voted to Leave is also worth considering.