Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Ron Swanson]

I'd rather we kicked out many of the natives and kept the migrants tbh.

You have my vote, Mr. Wayne.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I'd rather we kicked out many of the natives and kept the migrants tbh.

On what do you base this inflammatory statement, Bruce?

 

[Harryflashman]

On what do you base this inflammatory statement, Bruce?

I could be completely wrong and have badly misjudged his post but my guess is it was probably a lighthearted aside.

I refer you to your comment to Pete mate and say I’d think that bruce could easily have posted it in purple.

pete,
On the guitar forums I go on, purple is used to denote irony, having a laugh, mickey-taking.
I do believe your comment has been misinterpreted by some as being serious, when in fact it was quite the opposite...

 

[peteblue]

It doesn't matter if the banks aren't British. And it isn't naive to think they'll relocate staff. Top bankers will often relocate to different countries - being rich makes that easy. For lower level jobs, it's easy to re-hire in a different country. Going to Dublin will save them wage costs.

Estimates for banking job losses in London are between 4000 and 200,000 from just the banks themselves. But so what, they're just bankers, eh? But what about the knock-on effect for businesses in and around the banking sector such as hospitality industry, couriers, cabbies, cleaners, security etc? They'll lose trade and maybe jobs too.

If we lose our London-based euro clearing houses (which is a possibility) the country will lose around 80,000 jobs and up to £80bn per year.

Have you ever relocated a business ? Do you have any idea how long it takes or the disruption involved ? Besides the banking staff, are the respective legal teams moving, are there thousands of qualified and experienced legal people willing to move or waiting to pick up these new jobs ? Does the target city have all of these other support staff that you mention ?....

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Have you ever relocated a business ? Do you have any idea how long it takes or the disruption involved ? Besides the banking staff, are the respective legal teams moving, are there thousands of qualified and experienced legal people willing to move or waiting to pick up these new jobs ? Does the target city have all of these other support staff that you mention ?....

Wtf has that got to do with the fact that they may be forced into moving through legal necessity?

Oh and what happened to 'there's no such thing as can't' btw?

You should sack yourself Pete

 

[peteblue]

Wtf has that got to do with the fact that they may be forced into moving through legal necessity?

Oh and what happened to 'there's no such thing as can't' btw?

You should sack yourself Pete

I didn’t say can’t. Anything can be done will the right will, resource and time. However even moving locations in the U.K. you tend to lose 50-60% of the people. The EMA, based in London, a European body, have forecast that up to 80% of the staff will refuse to move from London. It’s fine saying that these bankers will just move but the majority of banking jobs in London are not EU related and so those that don’t wish to move simply will not. Certainly there will be almost no movement from the necessary law firms that supply support, as they would be dealing with different law. Dublin is a lovely place and I’m sure that some junior staff will love to go there, Paris is fantastic but it’s French, with French taxation and French law, Frankfurt is a dive, where everyone will need to speak and read German, even though everyone speaks English. I’ve no doubt banks will move some people to register a presence, but not even the mighty EU can demand that all employees have to be based there, otherwise all their car manufacturing firms and call centres will have to relocate back there........

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I didn’t say can’t. Anything can be done will the right will, resource and time. However even moving locations in the U.K. you tend to lose 50-60% of the people. The EMA, based in London, a European body, have forecast that up to 80% of the staff will refuse to move from London. It’s fine saying that these bankers will just move but the majority of banking jobs in London are not EU related and so those that don’t wish to move simply will not. Certainly there will be almost no movement from the necessary law firms that supply support, as they would be dealing with different law. Dublin is a lovely place and I’m sure that some junior staff will love to go there, Paris is fantastic but it’s French, with French taxation and French law, Frankfurt is a dive, where everyone will need to speak and read German, even though everyone speaks English. I’ve no doubt banks will move some people to register a presence, but not even the mighty EU can demand that all employees have to be based there, otherwise all their car manufacturing firms and call centres will have to relocate back there........

With respect Pete (and I hope you realise that I do genuinely like you btw, despite our spats and the fact that I think you're a bit of a barmy Tory )whether the individuals choose to relocate or not, the fact that jobs may have to be relocated due to legal necessity or are moved in advance due to pragmatic decisions based on the uncertainty. The net loss to our economy is the same mate.

 

[bobbydigital]

With respect Pete (and I hope you realise that I do genuinely like you btw, despite our spats and the fact that I think you're a bit of a barmy Tory whether the individuals choose to relocate or not, the fact that jobs may have to relocated due to legal necessity or are moved in advance due to pragmatic decisions based on the uncertainty. The net loss to our economy is the same mate.

They aren't moving for moving sake. They can't do part of their operations outside the EU, therefore they have to move these operations into the EU. If the people don't want to move, tough luck, they will hire someone in the city they move to.
Don't really get how this is even being debated? Most of them have come out and said it or are already in the process of moving.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Have you ever relocated a business ? Do you have any idea how long it takes or the disruption involved ? Besides the banking staff, are the respective legal teams moving, are there thousands of qualified and experienced legal people willing to move or waiting to pick up these new jobs ? Does the target city have all of these other support staff that you mention ?....

Earlier this year, Irish authorities announced that they'd done deals with more than a dozen London-based banks about moving key parts of their operations to Dublin. Conservative estimates put this as several thousand jobs. JP Morgan are building a 22 Storey building in Dublin. Goldman Sachs and Barclay's are in the process of swelling their Dublin operations while scaling back in London. GS are also investing more in France and Germany.

This doesn't take into account the banks that are more set on Paris, Luxembourg or Frankfurt.

London isn't going to become a banking ghost town by any stretch, but post Brexit European banking will be decentralised. London and the UK will lose a lot of money from this.

Elsewhere, Diageo will cut jobs in Scotland as it relocates to Italy. If EU free movement goes, thousands of jobs in the gaming and IT industries will be lost as several large firms have said they'll have no choice but to move. Around 130 German companies said they'd be withdrawing from the UK if brexit means a removal from the single market.

Even companies who have pledged to stay (eg. Jaguar/Landrover) have said that increased tariffs from a hard brexit will mean that they will have to make savings elsewhere ie. Job cuts.

My brother in law's IT firm has already relocated to Dublin. Only 24 employees, but that's them gone from London. All but 4 of them made the move. Many of them, including my Bro in law, are from mainland Europe so were happy to avoid the uncertainties of the EU departure on their rights. Small company, yeah, but if a lot of small companies do it, it soon adds up.

 

[Groucho]

 

[peteblue]

Earlier this year, Irish authorities announced that they'd done deals with more than a dozen London-based banks about moving key parts of their operations to Dublin. Conservative estimates put this as several thousand jobs. JP Morgan are building a 22 Storey building in Dublin. Goldman Sachs and Barclay's are in the process of swelling their Dublin operations while scaling back in London. GS are also investing more in France and Germany.

This doesn't take into account the banks that are more set on Paris, Luxembourg or Frankfurt.

London isn't going to become a banking ghost town by any stretch, but post Brexit European banking will be decentralised. London and the UK will lose a lot of money from this.

Elsewhere, Diageo will cut jobs in Scotland as it relocates to Italy. If EU free movement goes, thousands of jobs in the gaming and IT industries will be lost as several large firms have said they'll have no choice but to move. Around 130 German companies said they'd be withdrawing from the UK if brexit means a removal from the single market.

Even companies who have pledged to stay (eg. Jaguar/Landrover) have said that increased tariffs from a hard brexit will mean that they will have to make savings elsewhere ie. Job cuts.

My brother in law's IT firm has already relocated to Dublin. Only 24 employees, but that's them gone from London. All but 4 of them made the move. Many of them, including my Bro in law, are from mainland Europe so were happy to avoid the uncertainties of the EU departure on their rights. Small company, yeah, but if a lot of small companies do it, it soon adds up.

Of course there will be some movement, no one is denying this. Some parts of organisations and banks will no doubt relocate in order to have guaranteed access to the single market, but then again no guaranteed access to the U.K. market. We will no doubt lose some banking tax but then again the U.K. is too heavily reliant on financial services and this will force a realignment which is long overdue. But for people to claim that London will collapse or hundreds of thousands of jobs will move is just scaremongering, it’s just what could have happened any day of the week while we were in the EU anyway. Ireland was a ‘tiger’ economy only a decade ago, then it fell apart. These things happen. Our fishermen and fishing based ports and distributors will gain and grow, there will be swings and roundabouts......

 

[peteblue]

With respect Pete (and I hope you realise that I do genuinely like you btw, despite our spats and the fact that I think you're a bit of a barmy Tory )whether the individuals choose to relocate or not, the fact that jobs may have to be relocated due to legal necessity or are moved in advance due to pragmatic decisions based on the uncertainty. The net loss to our economy is the same mate.

I agree, but it’s not all one way. Companies will move out of the U.K. to the EU only if no deal is done. However if this is the case some companies will then have to move out of the EU to the U.K. in order to trade in the U.K.. If the EU become too protectionist and introduce laws about where banks can trade the Euro etc, then other countries including the U.K. and USA will do exactly the same to the EU regarding Sterling and the dollar. It’s not all one way, it’s complex, and until the final deal or no deal is understood businesses are making plans but not really knowing how these things will play out......

 

[Brennan]

I didn’t say can’t. Anything can be done will the right will, resource and time. However even moving locations in the U.K. you tend to lose 50-60% of the people. The EMA, based in London, a European body, have forecast that up to 80% of the staff will refuse to move from London. It’s fine saying that these bankers will just move but the majority of banking jobs in London are not EU related and so those that don’t wish to move simply will not. Certainly there will be almost no movement from the necessary law firms that supply support, as they would be dealing with different law. Dublin is a lovely place and I’m sure that some junior staff will love to go there, Paris is fantastic but it’s French, with French taxation and French law, Frankfurt is a dive, where everyone will need to speak and read German, even though everyone speaks English. I’ve no doubt banks will move some people to register a presence, but not even the mighty EU can demand that all employees have to be based there, otherwise all their car manufacturing firms and call centres will have to relocate back there........

Forbes recently listed it in the top 10 places to live on Europe, and I've a friend who regularly works there and has no problem despite barely speaking any German.

 

[Donald Twain]

CRUSH!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41716284

"They say it is important that the Brexit transition period matches as closely as possible current trading arrangements with the EU."

Translation: this is a major balls up and we would kindly appreciate it if whatever rubbish you agree to is as close to the great deal we already have as possible. Yours sincerely, British Industry.