Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

So it seems that Merkel is unable to explain or define exactly what sufficient progress is or needs to be, while Macron believes the money needs to be at least twice what May has already offered. Meanwhile the veil of illusion, pretending that NI and Citizens rights were of uppermost importance, has slipped to reveal the real face of pure greed........

 

[Joey66]

We survived without this lot before we can do it again - it's like dealing with the EU Mafia - they bullied Southern Ireland over the Maastricht treaty - now trying it on with us - they know we are there cash cow we have to show bottle and call their bluff!

 

[SteveSC]

We survived without this lot before we can do it again - it's like dealing with the EU Mafia - they bullied Southern Ireland over the Maastricht treaty - now trying it on with us - they know we are there cash cow we have to show bottle and call their bluff!

You are referring to the Lisbon treaty (the extension of the Masstricht one in 2008) one though right and not the original vote in 1992?

I thought the 1992 one went of with no issues other than the outgoing government in Ireland wanting to make sure the next government kept abortion out of it. If memory serves that was the biggest issue for Ireland.

The 2008 vote was when Ireland were told to go back to the polls because we did not give the EU the right answer on the first chance. That was a mess but it wasn't solely on the EU. The Irish people did not understand what they were voting for as it was not described well. There was other things added to it to like neutrality which threw of people and of course there was the genuine no voters.

The Irish Government were responsible just as much.

 

[tsubaki]

We survived without this lot before we can do it again - it's like dealing with the EU Mafia - they bullied Southern Ireland over the Maastricht treaty - now trying it on with us - they know we are there cash cow we have to show bottle and call their bluff!

TBH its a bit much to state that "we survived without this lot before we can do it again" - British history from the Reformation onwards is basically a long list of occasions when British troops, British fleets and British money had to intervene in European affairs because some cretin or other was trying to take the whole continent over and thereby pose a grave risk to our existence.

Abandoning Europe to the Europeans guarantees we will have to do it again before too long, and its a shame that the Yes campaign was so useless because its the one genuine fact that they could have used to trump the No campaign.

 

[Joey66]

TBH its a bit much to state that "we survived without this lot before we can do it again" - British history from the Reformation onwards is basically a long list of occasions when British troops, British fleets and British money had to intervene in European affairs because some cretin or other was trying to take the whole continent over and thereby pose a grave risk to our existence.

Abandoning Europe to the Europeans guarantees we will have to do it again before too long, and its a shame that the Yes campaign was so useless because its the one genuine fact that they could have used to trump the No campaign.

Brexit for the EU ATM is about the 4th major problem they have as the Euro may go pop, do you really want to bail them out when that goes down like a ship - the Catalan crisis -the Italian banking crisis not far from being another Greece, top that with Spanish youth unemployment it's hardly a club you would be want to be tied to, Germany and France will dictate our leaving terms no one else and if they are not favourable i.e. Cars and agriculture a massive loss to both sides a deal will be done its all about cash and the British 70 million will not stand any Polictical party to sell them down the river after the referendum!
Let's pay them what we owe, and any outstanding services we need , but get rid of their Polictical doctrine and go worldwide on trade we would and will prosper in the future controlling our borders, and serving tarrif free!

 

[SteveSC]

Brexit for the EU ATM is about the 4th major problem they have as the Euro may go pop, do you really want to bail them out when that goes down like a ship - the Catalan crisis -the Italian banking crisis not far from being another Greece, top that with Spanish youth unemployment it's hardly a club you would be want to be tied to, Germany and France will dictate our leaving terms no one else and if they are not favourable i.e. Cars and agriculture a massive loss to both sides a deal will be done its all about cash and the British 70 million will not stand any Polictical party to sell them down the river after the referendum!
Let's pay them what we owe, and any outstanding services we need , but get rid of their Polictical doctrine and go worldwide on trade we would and will prosper in the future controlling our borders, and serving tarrif free!

This for me as an outsider looking in with the pro brexit people sums a lot of you up and its actually the thing that a lot of people consider many Britain's to be and its arrogant. Don't get me wrong i love visiting Britain, have many friends there but when it comes to certain things some of you are plain arrogant.

The arrogance on this forum thinking that Britain is the be all and end all for Europe and we will be a loss with out you.
The arrogance of the British government to think they could simply hand in their notice and walk out with no plan and with no consequence then to put it on the EU and accuse them of all sorts.
The arrogance that you think you will break free and then be able to bail out Europe haha!!
To still think this is ye olde time when Britain was a might empire and can be again i have heard being mentioned.
You guys have been in the EU as long as most of you are alive and for most of that time Britain has been on board with the EU with the exception of the last 5 or 6 maybe 8 years.

If you guys were less arrogant about it and get down of your high horse people might see where you are coming from.

It's not a bad idea to be independent from EU and you Joey, Pete and Old blue have made some solid points but then you guys follow it up with nonsense and then get annoyed and angry at anyone that disagrees be they forum members or new journalists or politicians

The fact that banks don't trust being in England right now that they would rather move to Germany or Ireland because of brexit shows a flaw in your argument.

You are correct the Euro is in for a turbulent time and yes it may fail sure but no one know. Heck Pete will tell you the experts don't know what they are talking about so...

 

[peteblue]

TBH its a bit much to state that "we survived without this lot before we can do it again" - British history from the Reformation onwards is basically a long list of occasions when British troops, British fleets and British money had to intervene in European affairs because some cretin or other was trying to take the whole continent over and thereby pose a grave risk to our existence.

Abandoning Europe to the Europeans guarantees we will have to do it again before too long, and its a shame that the Yes campaign was so useless because its the one genuine fact that they could have used to trump the No campaign.

This is probably the first Remain point that I agree with.....

 

[peteblue]

This for me as an outsider looking in with the pro brexit people sums a lot of you up and its actually the thing that a lot of people consider many Britain's to be and its arrogant. Don't get me wrong i love visiting Britain, have many friends there but when it comes to certain things some of you are plain arrogant.

The arrogance on this forum thinking that Britain is the be all and end all for Europe and we will be a loss with out you.
The arrogance of the British government to think they could simply hand in their notice and walk out with no plan and with no consequence then to put it on the EU and accuse them of all sorts.
The arrogance that you think you will break free and then be able to bail out Europe haha!!
To still think this is ye olde time when Britain was a might empire and can be again i have heard being mentioned.
You guys have been in the EU as long as most of you are alive and for most of that time Britain has been on board with the EU with the exception of the last 5 or 6 maybe 8 years.

If you guys were less arrogant about it and get down of your high horse people might see where you are coming from.

It's not a bad idea to be independent from EU and you Joey, Pete and Old blue have made some solid points but then you guys follow it up with nonsense and then get annoyed and angry at anyone that disagrees be they forum members or new journalists or politicians

The fact that banks don't trust being in England right now that they would rather move to Germany or Ireland because of brexit shows a flaw in your argument.

You are correct the Euro is in for a turbulent time and yes it may fail sure but no one know. Heck Pete will tell you the experts don't know what they are talking about so...

Oh dear. Why are banks currently based here ? Indeed why have banks always been based here ? Banking is not about the individual bank, it’s about Law, Trust, Political trust and culture, it’s about the legal and support services available to it and these things do not develop or appear overnight. The people working for these banks, who mostly speak English and have English law as their back up do not want to go to France or Germany where they will be within a minority speaking language and whose legal and support services are completely foreign to them. Even Deutsche Bank will not be leaving. They will set up offices like they do in many other countries, the EU will do their very best to change laws to attempt to drive them to the continent but even this will be a serious reason for not going. The EU have a serious underbelly problem and it’s called banking.......

 

[tsubaki]

Brexit for the EU ATM is about the 4th major problem they have as the Euro may go pop, do you really want to bail them out when that goes down like a ship - the Catalan crisis -the Italian banking crisis not far from being another Greece, top that with Spanish youth unemployment it's hardly a club you would be want to be tied to, Germany and France will dictate our leaving terms no one else and if they are not favourable i.e. Cars and agriculture a massive loss to both sides a deal will be done its all about cash and the British 70 million will not stand any Polictical party to sell them down the river after the referendum!
Let's pay them what we owe, and any outstanding services we need , but get rid of their Polictical doctrine and go worldwide on trade we would and will prosper in the future controlling our borders, and serving tarrif free!

If the EU goes down (and it is more likely if we leave, lets face it we are by a distance the most politically stable country in the union), we are going to have to deal with the consequences of it. If nationalism replaces it, we are going to have to deal with the consequences of it. Both of those are going to be a lot more expensive than staying in and making sure it gets reformed properly - as the otherwise cretinous Lord Beresford said, "Battleships are cheaper than battles".

 

[SteveSC]

Oh dear. Why are banks currently based here ? Indeed why have banks always been based here ? Banking is not about the individual bank, it’s about Law, Trust, Political trust and culture, it’s about the legal and support services available to it and these things do not develop or appear overnight. The people working for these banks, who mostly speak English and have English law as their back up do not want to go to France or Germany where they will be within a minority speaking language and whose legal and support services are completely foreign to them. Even Deutsche Bank will not be leaving. They will set up offices like they do in many other countries, the EU will do their very best to change laws to attempt to drive them to the continent but even this will be a serious reason for not going. The EU have a serious underbelly problem and it’s called banking.......

You honestly think they care about their English speaking employees? If they leave they leave and tough if you don't want to work for them where ever they move to.

Also i suggest you read more than the telegraph and the express its crazy how verbatim and in sync you are with them.

Now the employee thing wasn't even my point. I feel you glossed over it and concluded what you felt you wanted to to repeat the everything is ok mantra you keep coming out with.

Banks don't simply pick up and leave. The reason they want to leave the UK is simple Brexit. They want to remain in the Euro Zone plus all the incentives it comes with it.

Also of course the EU will try their best to give them incentives and tweaks laws why wouldn't they? How is that wrong? Just because you guys may suffer? Well you chose to leave.

You keep mentioning Deutsche Bank in a number of posts, but they are not the only bank you know. They will of course keep an office in London as will some of the others but they will move most of their operations abroad. They will always want to remain in the Uk for the sterling and trading but if they want to deal in the Euro zone it makes no sense to have their base of operation in a country no longer associated with it. They will keep smaller offices there.

Either way it will be a blow for the many of the 20000 employees all of them hire combined. You can throw the argument for the third time that people wont want to move and again i'll tell you they don't and won't care. They will simply hire people who can and want to be there.

Here is a rundown so far of the banks and where they are going:

Dublin - Barclays, Standard Chartered, JP Morgan, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse

Frankfurt - Standard Chartered, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, UBS

London - RBS, Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank

Berlin - Lloyds

Paris - HSBC

*Citigroup, Standard Chartered, Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan have not made firm decisions

 

[peteblue]

You honestly think they care about their English speaking employees? If they leave they leave and tough if you don't want to work for them where ever they move to.

Also i suggest you read more than the telegraph and the express its crazy how verbatim and in sync you are with them.

Now the employee thing wasn't even my point. I feel you glossed over it and concluded what you felt you wanted to to repeat the everything is ok mantra you keep coming out with.

Banks don't simply pick up and leave. The reason they want to leave the UK is simple Brexit. They want to remain in the Euro Zone plus all the incentives it comes with it.

Also of course the EU will try their best to give them incentives and tweaks laws why wouldn't they? How is that wrong? Just because you guys may suffer? Well you chose to leave.

You keep mentioning Deutsche Bank in a number of posts, but they are not the only bank you know. They will of course keep an office in London as will some of the others but they will move most of their operations abroad. They will always want to remain in the Uk for the sterling and trading but if they want to deal in the Euro zone it makes no sense to have their base of operation in a country no longer associated with it. They will keep smaller offices there.

Either way it will be a blow for the many of the 20000 employees all of them hire combined. You can throw the argument for the third time that people wont want to move and again i'll tell you they don't and won't care. They will simply hire people who can and want to be there.

Here is a rundown so far of the banks and where they are going:

Dublin - Barclays, Standard Chartered, JP Morgan, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse

Frankfurt - Standard Chartered, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, UBS

London - RBS, Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank

Berlin - Lloyds

Paris - HSBC

*Citigroup, Standard Chartered, Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan have not made firm decisions

Good luck with that then. Hiring people who can and want to be there........while completely ignoring the support services required to make it work......or will you also simply hire people who can and want to be there.........and you remainers call Leavers ‘simplistic’........

Oh and I read from a very wide set of material from around the world......but you just keep believing what you want....

 

[SteveSC]

Good luck with that then. Hiring people who can and want to be there........while completely ignoring the support services required to make it work......or will you also simply hire people who can and want to be there.........and you remainers call Leavers ‘simplistic’........

Again i am not British and so i am not a "remainer"

Secondly i do not work for a bank nor do i hire for banks.

Thirdly what makes you think they will be loyal anyway? When have banks ever been loyal to their staff with the exception of the Board of directors and investors?

Like you said there are plenty of Banks out there. I'm sure they will hire people and find and train people. There will also be some of the younger ones who will take the jobs you know this. Anyway a lot of large institutions including banking speak English even if they are based elsewhere. Speaking from experience.

Sure they will probably use the British staff to teach their replacements who know. Either way the banks i listed have already made up their minds and others are still considering it.

Many companies use that model and have done over the years for example technology companies. I know because i helped train Indians in IT knowing full well they would take my job eventually.

I am amazed for someone who is so bleak towards banks to begin with, you think they would consider your points (which i do believe to be valid and a good argument).Pete you seem the least trusting person towards banks yet you believe they will treat the British staff and relationship and so on so forth right?

Oh and as you always say leave the personal comments out please calling me simplistic.

 

[Old Blue 2]

So it seems that Merkel is unable to explain or define exactly what sufficient progress is or needs to be, while Macron believes the money needs to be at least twice what May has already offered. Meanwhile the veil of illusion, pretending that NI and Citizens rights were of uppermost importance, has slipped to reveal the real face of pure greed........

Agreed. I said pages ago that all they're interested in is extracting as much money as they can from us, meanwhile dressing it up as problematic negotiations. I do wish some would open their eyes...

 

[peteblue]

Again i am not British and so i am not a "remainer"

Secondly i do not work for a bank nor do i hire for banks.

Thirdly what makes you think they will be loyal anyway? When have banks ever been loyal to their staff with the exception of the Board of directors and investors?

Like you said there are plenty of Banks out there. I'm sure they will hire people and find and train people. There will also be some of the younger ones who will take the jobs you know this. Anyway a lot of large institutions including banking speak English even if they are based elsewhere. Speaking from experience.

Sure they will probably use the British staff to teach their replacements who know. Either way the banks i listed have already made up their minds and others are still considering it.

Many companies use that model and have done over the years for example technology companies. I know because i helped train Indians in IT knowing full well they would take my job eventually.

I am amazed for someone who is so bleak towards banks to begin with, you think they would consider your points (which i do believe to be valid and a good argument).Pete you seem the least trusting person towards banks yet you believe they will treat the British staff and relationship and so on so forth right?

Oh and as you always say leave the personal comments out please calling me simplistic.

I wasn’t calling you simplistic, merely your argument....

 

[SteveSC]

I wasn’t calling you simplistic, merely your argument....

Right, then, like i said you lower the tone when someone has facts that disagree with you. You revert to name calling and when called out you dress it up or say you were misunderstood. Arrogant yet again.

Either way its not just my opinion maybe if you looked beyond the right leaning conservative news source you would see more about the banks and their decisions is happening.

Type it into google even and you will see the top 12 or 13 results are on that very nature.

But sure everyone that disagrees with Brexit is simplistic then right? and experts are wrong.

Arrogant