Current Affairs EU In or Out
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
In some respects yes. But I see more opportunity than downside in leaving and striking out on our own, without having to drag 27 other countries and the EU bureaucracy like an anchor behind us. Politically, economically, militarily we will be better off....
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
The best place to be for the UK is trading with the EU bloc, NAFTA bloc, BRICS, and the Commonwealth.
As the commonwealth has been mentioned once or twice, it's worth having a look at what it represents.
Consisting of 52 countries, occupying 20% of the land mass across all continents, with about one third of the worlds population and about 16% of the world GDP.
It has a population roughly X4 that of the EU.
Unlike the diminishing EU, it is one of the fastest growing population and GDP blocs around. It is of course not a single unified body, but has relationships, sometimes strained or even hostile, that go back over many years through a common consensus and language.
It has many countries that could be defined as under developed, in much the same way as China was a couple of decades ago. But, it has the potential to become one of the largest trading blocs in the world and by far the greatest potential for growth.
Some plucked out graphs...
As can be seen, we are probably at the very best point of leaving the EU, and doing a deal with it, to allow us to do what we do best and use our quite significant political, economic and military strength to help develop the Commonwealth and provide benefits for all.
I know that our diehard remainers will dismiss the Commonwealth, but the numbers, both for its growth and the EU decline make for fascinating reading. This is a wonderful opportunity for our younger generations to be a part of something that will aid our economy, aid the economies of developed and developing countries, and begin to develop a world view as opposed to a purely European viewpoint over which we have almost no control.
It will be difficult and will take time, but everything worth having always does.
If those under 40 cannot get excited about our potential prospects in leaving the EU, and developing and growing something new, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.......
As the commonwealth has been mentioned once or twice, it's worth having a look at what it represents.
Consisting of 52 countries, occupying 20% of the land mass across all continents, with about one third of the worlds population and about 16% of the world GDP.
It has a population roughly X4 that of the EU.
Unlike the diminishing EU, it is one of the fastest growing population and GDP blocs around. It is of course not a single unified body, but has relationships, sometimes strained or even hostile, that go back over many years through a common consensus and language.
It has many countries that could be defined as under developed, in much the same way as China was a couple of decades ago. But, it has the potential to become one of the largest trading blocs in the world and by far the greatest potential for growth.
Some plucked out graphs...
As can be seen, we are probably at the very best point of leaving the EU, and doing a deal with it, to allow us to do what we do best and use our quite significant political, economic and military strength to help develop the Commonwealth and provide benefits for all.
I know that our diehard remainers will dismiss the Commonwealth, but the numbers, both for its growth and the EU decline make for fascinating reading. This is a wonderful opportunity for our younger generations to be a part of something that will aid our economy, aid the economies of developed and developing countries, and begin to develop a world view as opposed to a purely European viewpoint over which we have almost no control.
It will be difficult and will take time, but everything worth having always does.
If those under 40 cannot get excited about our potential prospects in leaving the EU, and developing and growing something new, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.......
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
FFS pete, don't talk sense and illustrate it with graphs - that what the remainers think they have sole custody of... 
(Awaits latest tirade from the usual suspects...)
(Awaits latest tirade from the usual suspects...)
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
A couple of points like....The best place to be for the UK is trading with the EU bloc, NAFTA bloc, BRICS, and the Commonwealth.
As the commonwealth has been mentioned once or twice, it's worth having a look at what it represents.
Consisting of 52 countries, occupying 20% of the land mass across all continents, with about one third of the worlds population and about 16% of the world GDP.
It has a population roughly X4 that of the EU.
Unlike the diminishing EU, it is one of the fastest growing population and GDP blocs around. It is of course not a single unified body, but has relationships, sometimes strained or even hostile, that go back over many years through a common consensus and language.
It has many countries that could be defined as under developed, in much the same way as China was a couple of decades ago. But, it has the potential to become one of the largest trading blocs in the world and by far the greatest potential for growth.
Some plucked out graphs...
As can be seen, we are probably at the very best point of leaving the EU, and doing a deal with it, to allow us to do what we do best and use our quite significant political, economic and military strength to help develop the Commonwealth and provide benefits for all.
I know that our diehard remainers will dismiss the Commonwealth, but the numbers, both for its growth and the EU decline make for fascinating reading. This is a wonderful opportunity for our younger generations to be a part of something that will aid our economy, aid the economies of developed and developing countries, and begin to develop a world view as opposed to a purely European viewpoint over which we have almost no control.
It will be difficult and will take time, but everything worth having always does.
If those under 40 cannot get excited about our potential prospects in leaving the EU, and developing and growing something new, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.......
The commonwealth GDP numbers include the UK and the EU numbers are just the Eurozone and not the total EU
The 2016 GDP of the commonwealth excluding the UK was $7.3TR, and the EU excluding the UK $11.7m
The other largest economies within the Commonwealth are Canada, who've just taken how long to negotiate a trade agreement with the EU? at $1.5TR. India who've already told May they want some form of free movement of workers as part of a deal, at $2.2TR and the Aussies at $1.2TR who've said this summer that they'll do a deal, but not before they've done one with the EU........and therefore where's the gain like?
It's a land of milk and honey theory that somehow the Commonwealth is going to provide a whole raft of new opportunities for the UK post Brexit, that somehow weren't there already. Plus if there's new trade deals to be done with Nations who don't already have deals with the EU, then how are we going to push the EU's nose out of the trough when they push in front of us waving their 27 nation bloc ahead of our 1 nation opportunity?
bobbydigital
Player Valuation: £1.5m
The best place to be for the UK is trading with the EU bloc, NAFTA bloc, BRICS, and the Commonwealth.
As the commonwealth has been mentioned once or twice, it's worth having a look at what it represents.
Consisting of 52 countries, occupying 20% of the land mass across all continents, with about one third of the worlds population and about 16% of the world GDP.
It has a population roughly X4 that of the EU.
Unlike the diminishing EU, it is one of the fastest growing population and GDP blocs around. It is of course not a single unified body, but has relationships, sometimes strained or even hostile, that go back over many years through a common consensus and language.
It has many countries that could be defined as under developed, in much the same way as China was a couple of decades ago. But, it has the potential to become one of the largest trading blocs in the world and by far the greatest potential for growth.
Some plucked out graphs...
As can be seen, we are probably at the very best point of leaving the EU, and doing a deal with it, to allow us to do what we do best and use our quite significant political, economic and military strength to help develop the Commonwealth and provide benefits for all.
I know that our diehard remainers will dismiss the Commonwealth, but the numbers, both for its growth and the EU decline make for fascinating reading. This is a wonderful opportunity for our younger generations to be a part of something that will aid our economy, aid the economies of developed and developing countries, and begin to develop a world view as opposed to a purely European viewpoint over which we have almost no control.
It will be difficult and will take time, but everything worth having always does.
If those under 40 cannot get excited about our potential prospects in leaving the EU, and developing and growing something new, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.......
So what's the plan then? The UK is going to individually go through every commonwealth country and set up trade agreements?
You realise it's 2017 now? These countries aren't just going to roll over out of some weird fondness for years of colonial oppression. I know you will find this very hard to believe, but the UK is just another country to them now.
It's good that you acknowledge it will be difficult and take time, but how long do you really think this will all take? Do you think businesses in the UK will just wait it out?
Both sides of any agreement are going to want something. The other side already have their own established trade partners and don't need the UK, the UK is the side that needs these deals to happen. Can you figure out what they are going to want? India (the country that drives all the growth trends in your graphs) have already come out and said it. Free movement of people.
Is that going to be OK? There was nothing in the leave campaign about lowering immigration was there? Opening up the borders to 1 billion Indians will not be an issue at all for anyone who voted leave? I mean your graph shows that EU population growth is falling so I guess you will need some more people?
bobbydigital
Player Valuation: £1.5m
Basically posted the same thing at the same time mate. If only it was as simple as "ugh Commonwealth big, they love us, UK click fingers and trade good again" haha.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Why is everything a 'they won't roll over' scenario. It meant to be win/win. Many of these countries have produce and materials that we want. Many would like technology and other produce in return. People keep saying that all India wants is free movement of people. Do you really believe that allowing their brightest and best to leave is what they want, or do you believe that they want to send out their most desperate, or those with artisan skills. How many Indians do you believe they wish to export, 5M, 10M, 100M, or when they say they want 'free movement' perhaps they just mean a closer working arrangement and ease of visas for the right people.....
Pete, when you were working in senior positions in business, did you have to ask the government permission before you sold your produce overseas?
Fedlingen
Player Valuation: £20m
Trade agreements are mostly build on trust and stability. Abrubtly leaving the EU isn't exactly the best signal to send to possible trade partners.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
It depended on the product and the country Bruce. Because we owned many companies overseas, technology transfer could take many forms. Obviously there were issues regarding originating technology and any embargo's on technology to certain countries. The government were always involved via Export Control and Export Credits Guarantee Dept, to ensure we got paid of course....why do you ask ?......
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Trade agreements are indeed built on trust. The UK is a trustworthy nation, recognised as such, and when we leave, being the 5th largest economy, countries will be lining up to deal with us. Meanwhile the 27 countries of the EU with each of their requirements and variable trust factors, you can look them up yourself, will be left behind......
There just seems to be a rhetoric that we aren't allowed to trade with the Commonwealth at the moment due to the dastardly EU. I'd always believed that trade deals between nations helped to make trade easier, but trade could still take place without them. I mean if you take an Alibaba or an Amazon, I doubt they have relied on their respective governments to do deals for them, or to ask permission before they can enter a new territory. I'm just confused by the notion that our companies need us to leave the EU to 'trade with the world'. As I've mentioned previously, the DTI have established a platform to help companies trade across the commonwealth, and there are a bunch of EU bodies looking to do likewise within Europe.
bobbydigital
Player Valuation: £1.5m
Exactly, it is meant to be win / win and you are right, many of them have produce and materials that the UK want and will happily take UK money for it, if UK consumers will pay what they charge. The problem is on the UK export side though as countries have moved on from the Commonwealth, already have trade agreements and are geographically closer to their established trading partners where they will get most of what the UK produces cheaper anyway. You also need to consider the effect on the existing UK industries free trade deals with certain countries would have, which is why they take so long to conclude.
India aren't simply exporting people like commodities, many of them want to study and take opportunities abroad that aren't available to them in India and the Indian government recognises this. As part of any trade deal they have made it clear they want it to be easier for their citizens to work and study in the UK, whether that is full free movement, easier visas I don't really know. End of the day, a free trade agreement with a country of over 1.3 billion people whether it includes free movement or easier visas comes with far more immigration and they have made it clear that is what they want so both sides can get the win / win you speak of.
I'm pretty sure that is at odds with what the leave campaign was run on as I remember Farage saying "It is clear that immigration is the number one issue and concern for the British people and will be the defining issue of this EU referendum campaign." Do you really believe a lot of Leave voters won't mind trade agreements that create more immigration?
Bruce that post was near as a biggest Google you have ever donelol
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