peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Misinformed, mistaken, unless of course it actually was the correct medical decision, then Correct, Brave.......
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
- Start date
- Status
Misinformed, mistaken, unless of course it actually was the correct medical decision, then Correct, Brave.......
I wouldn't call fulfilling legal obligations 'pissing away' tbh.
What does age have to do with ones knowledge Pete?
There is no blanket 'we' though Pete, much less a uniform block of opinion one way or another. That's half of the problem with nationalism, that some block of people can all be thought of as acting and thinking the same way because they were born on the same bit of rock.
As for silliness, well I'm wondering when the penny will drop. Last year the Indians shattered the 'trading with the world' myth on the trade trip out there, and Japan have done likewise recently, yet we're still blustering on with this idea that once unshackled from the horrible EU we can regain our glory days of empire? Japan is the 2nd biggest non-EU trading partner we have (yet we do more trade with the Netherlands btw), so surely their opinion should provide a reality check, or are we really relying on a person who has banged the America first drum so loudly to come to our rescue?
Incidentally, it's worth noting that despite the tremendous depreciation of the pound, exports are still pretty much in line with the 5 year average, so we haven't been able to depreciate our way to more balanced trade either, despite being in the 'golden' period of still enjoying single market access whilst having cheaper products to sell.
Bluerover
Player Valuation: £60m
Angry pro-EU Tory MEP obtains Irish passport in Brexit protest
Charles Tannock says he is ‘ashamed to be British in many ways’ and criticises his party’s ‘arrogance, hubris, petty nationalism and triumphalism’
A pro-EU Tory politician has secured an Irish passport over his disgust about Brexit, saying he is “ashamed to be British in many ways”.
Conservative MEP Charles Tannock has confirmed he obtained the Irish passport because his grandmother was born in Dublin.
The representative for London in the European parliament is one of thousands of British people who have been applying for Irish passports since the UK voted to leave the EU last year.
He said his interest in his Irish heritage “has been awakened by Brexit because, to be honest, I am quite ashamed to be British in many ways”.
Tannock told the Irish Times on Monday he was a “pretty angry pro-European Tory” who was strongly opposed to Brexit and had sought out a European passport – in his case an Irish one.
The Tory MEP also criticised his party for being mired in “arrogance and hubris … the petty nationalism, the triumphalism”.
In April the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFA) in Dublin revealed there had been a 68% rise in Irish passport applications from the UK in the first quarter of 2017.
Between January and March 2017, 51,000 applications were received from the UK, compared with 30,000 for whole of last year.
If the surge continues, the DFA expects that applications will pass the 1m mark by the end of this year.
Dan Mulhall, a former Irish ambassador to London, described the increase as “an extraordinary number”.
Mulhall said the spike was due to people trying to “safeguard their position for the future” in the light of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ory-mep-gets-irish-passport-in-brexit-protest
Charles Tannock says he is ‘ashamed to be British in many ways’ and criticises his party’s ‘arrogance, hubris, petty nationalism and triumphalism’
A pro-EU Tory politician has secured an Irish passport over his disgust about Brexit, saying he is “ashamed to be British in many ways”.
Conservative MEP Charles Tannock has confirmed he obtained the Irish passport because his grandmother was born in Dublin.
The representative for London in the European parliament is one of thousands of British people who have been applying for Irish passports since the UK voted to leave the EU last year.
He said his interest in his Irish heritage “has been awakened by Brexit because, to be honest, I am quite ashamed to be British in many ways”.
Tannock told the Irish Times on Monday he was a “pretty angry pro-European Tory” who was strongly opposed to Brexit and had sought out a European passport – in his case an Irish one.
The Tory MEP also criticised his party for being mired in “arrogance and hubris … the petty nationalism, the triumphalism”.
In April the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFA) in Dublin revealed there had been a 68% rise in Irish passport applications from the UK in the first quarter of 2017.
Between January and March 2017, 51,000 applications were received from the UK, compared with 30,000 for whole of last year.
If the surge continues, the DFA expects that applications will pass the 1m mark by the end of this year.
Dan Mulhall, a former Irish ambassador to London, described the increase as “an extraordinary number”.
Mulhall said the spike was due to people trying to “safeguard their position for the future” in the light of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ory-mep-gets-irish-passport-in-brexit-protest
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Well knowledge is gained through experience and education, it therefore follows that the more experience you can gain or the more education you can gain improves knowledge, age gives the time required to acquire both. A 5 year old is generally more knowledgable than a 2 year old, a 25 year old is more generally knowledgable than a 17, assuming they follow similar paths. It therefore seems quite reasonable to assume that a well educated 65 year old with 40 years experience is more knowledgable than a well educated 45 year oldwith 20 years of experience......
Your regular reference to 'the empire' undermines your argument. No one seeks 'empire' but similarly no one should undermine the amount of goodwill towards the UK deriving from empire and the the commonwealth. Canada, Australia, New Zealand are the obvious ones because they are both English speaking and many are of UK stock with family still here. Commonwealth countries have very good relationships with the UK, and all are English speaking. This gives us a decent list of countries who would wish to trade with us.
In addition, the USA, China, etc give even more opportunity. Our trade with the EU is not with 27 countries, its based around a dozen or so countries, all of whom export more to us than vice versa, and one way or another that trade will continue.
I am still at a loss as to what you are afraid of tbh....exactly what do you believe will happen.....
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Not legal obligations. As has been pointed out to the EU, we have no legal obligations once we leave. We may have moral or political obligations, but not legal ones......
Well knowledge is gained through experience and education, it therefore follows that the more experience you can gain or the more education you can gain improves knowledge, age gives the time required to acquire both. A 5 year old is generally more knowledgable than a 2 year old, a 25 year old is more generally knowledgable than a 17, assuming they follow similar paths. It therefore seems quite reasonable to assume that a well educated 65 year old with 40 years experience is more knowledgable than a well educated 45 year oldwith 20 years of experience......
Your regular reference to 'the empire' undermines your argument. No one seeks 'empire' but similarly no one should undermine the amount of goodwill towards the UK deriving from empire and the the commonwealth. Canada, Australia, New Zealand are the obvious ones because they are both English speaking and many are of UK stock with family still here. Commonwealth countries have very good relationships with the UK, and all are English speaking. This gives us a decent list of countries who would wish to trade with us.
In addition, the USA, China, etc give even more opportunity. Our trade with the EU is not with 27 countries, its based around a dozen or so countries, all of whom export more to us than vice versa, and one way or another that trade will continue.
I am still at a loss as to what you are afraid of tbh....exactly what do you believe will happen.....
As has been pointed out to you above, that's far too simplistic. My mother is quite a bit older than me, and I wouldn't say she's smarter than me whatsoever. Likewise, with respect, a lot of fallacies have been pointed out in your own posts on here (that state pensions are paid out of contributions rather than out of the current tax base, for instance, not to mention this continuously trotted out whopper that they trade more with us than we do with them), so age is no guarantee of wisdom in a topic. We also have to remember that the Brexit campaign itself was underpinned by the whole "who needs experts" nonsense, so the idea that it has much in the way of intellectual backing is somewhat rich. If there's one thing that unites populist campaigns throughout the ages is that they're always against the intellectual, economic and political elite.
With regards to your latter point, a few years ago (and before Brexit) the DTI launched an initiative to encourage greater trade between Commonwealth countries, and I don't recall a single representative from Australia or New Zealand in the list of participating companies, and that initiative has had very limited success. Likewise, I go to Canada house on a regular basis and the trade work between us and them pales significantly compared to our major European partners. I could say the same with Israel. There are attempts to foster links, and the DTI attempt to do so with most countries around the world, but with limited success.
This notion that there are countries queuing up to work with us is quite frankly delusional. India has already said it's more interested in free movement of people than in trade with us. Japan has said we're way behind the EU in the queue for trade deals, and if you really believe America is going to give us a deal when they've already ditched TTIP and Trump is trying to ditch NAFTA you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.
As for what I believe will happen. I suspect that the Tories will slowly appreciate both how horrendously out of their depth they are and what a terrible negotiating hand they have, and will do a spin job that a deal as close as we can possibly get to what we already have (but with less input into it) is a roaring success to try and satisfy the Brexit means Brexit tub thumpers.
It will be paid, and you can vault me on that. I strongly suspect we will have a 'transition period' that will cover the period for which the EU believe we have obligations, and after that transition period we have as near as dammit what we have now but with no say in the rules we now have to abide by.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
A
Your comparison with your mum I will put down to the arrogance of youth.
Our ability to foster trading links is currently hindered by being in the EU, once out we will still be one of the 5/6 biggest economies in the world and people will want to do business. We currently have a £70Bn deficit in trading with the EU, I would be more than happy to move the whole trading relationship towards North America and I'm pretty sure that Trump would be happy with a £70Bn a year surplus.
The 'bill' I have no doubt will be paid. But not because of legal reasons because there are none. It will be paid because we are a moral country but will also demand some form of quid pro quo on trading because part of the bill will be political. In respect of having no say in the rules, so what, they will be a separate trading block, just like the USA and China, and we have no say in formulating their rules and regulations either......
Your comparison with your mum I will put down to the arrogance of youth.
Our ability to foster trading links is currently hindered by being in the EU, once out we will still be one of the 5/6 biggest economies in the world and people will want to do business. We currently have a £70Bn deficit in trading with the EU, I would be more than happy to move the whole trading relationship towards North America and I'm pretty sure that Trump would be happy with a £70Bn a year surplus.
The 'bill' I have no doubt will be paid. But not because of legal reasons because there are none. It will be paid because we are a moral country but will also demand some form of quid pro quo on trading because part of the bill will be political. In respect of having no say in the rules, so what, they will be a separate trading block, just like the USA and China, and we have no say in formulating their rules and regulations either......
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
Well knowledge is gained through experience and education, it therefore follows that the more experience you can gain or the more education you can gain improves knowledge, age gives the time required to acquire both. A 5 year old is generally more knowledgable than a 2 year old, a 25 year old is more generally knowledgable than a 17, assuming they follow similar paths. It therefore seems quite reasonable to assume that a well educated 65 year old with 40 years experience is more knowledgable than a well educated 45 year oldwith 20 years of experience......
Your regular reference to 'the empire' undermines your argument. No one seeks 'empire' but similarly no one should undermine the amount of goodwill towards the UK deriving from empire and the the commonwealth. Canada, Australia, New Zealand are the obvious ones because they are both English speaking and many are of UK stock with family still here. Commonwealth countries have very good relationships with the UK, and all are English speaking. This gives us a decent list of countries who would wish to trade with us.
In addition, the USA, China, etc give even more opportunity. Our trade with the EU is not with 27 countries, its based around a dozen or so countries, all of whom export more to us than vice versa, and one way or another that trade will continue.
I am still at a loss as to what you are afraid of tbh....exactly what do you believe will happen.....
That's a massive assumption though and stands up to little scrutiny.
How much of the 65 year olds knowledge is still relevant in 2017? That'll depend on the segment they work in and what has changed over the years. The 45 year old with 20 years less experience may have worked in numerous different environments and gained a much broader breadth of knowledge than the older guy who might have spent most of his career in one organisation. So it's not a fair assumption at all, as there's numerous different variables...
As for the Commonwealth, rather ironic that it's being held up as the great opportunity - when it was the drop off in our trade with the Commonwealth that prompted us to join the Common Market in the first place!
What are we going to sell into the Commonwealth that we don't already and why exactly???
You can put it down to her being generally a bit crap.
I think it was Confucius who said "To achieve knowledge, learn something every day. To achieve wisdom forget something every day,"Well knowledge is gained through experience and education, it therefore follows that the more experience you can gain or the more education you can gain improves knowledge, age gives the time required to acquire both. A 5 year old is generally more knowledgable than a 2 year old, a 25 year old is more generally knowledgable than a 17, assuming they follow similar paths. It therefore seems quite reasonable to assume that a well educated 65 year old with 40 years experience is more knowledgable than a well educated 45 year oldwith 20 years of experience......
Your regular reference to 'the empire' undermines your argument. No one seeks 'empire' but similarly no one should undermine the amount of goodwill towards the UK deriving from empire and the the commonwealth. Canada, Australia, New Zealand are the obvious ones because they are both English speaking and many are of UK stock with family still here. Commonwealth countries have very good relationships with the UK, and all are English speaking. This gives us a decent list of countries who would wish to trade with us.
In addition, the USA, China, etc give even more opportunity. Our trade with the EU is not with 27 countries, its based around a dozen or so countries, all of whom export more to us than vice versa, and one way or another that trade will continue.
I am still at a loss as to what you are afraid of tbh....exactly what do you believe will happen.....
- Status