Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Oh, just to name a few... we have withdrawn our massive influence from one of the largest trading and political blocs in the world, we are and will continue to experience massive economic upheaval due to immediate uncertainty and long-term lack of power on the world stage, putting at risk the Union of the United Kingdom due to massive disagreement between the regions that consist of it, whilst weakening the political status quo on the continent that has achieved European peace since World War 2.

We had little influence, the Germans and French had it stitched up. We have no lack of power on the world stage, we are stil 5/6th biggest economy and 4/5th most capable military, we are unrivalled in political persuasion outside of Europe and sit on the UN Security Council as a permanent member. The UK will remain and the EU has not achieved European peace, this was done by the UK and America and their large European based armies in Germany. NATO Guarantees European peace not bureaucrats in Brussels.

It is bad for literally everyone, and has been done for no practical reason whatsoever. We were a big fish in a big pond - we will now be greatly diminished; there's no going back to the days of the British Empire, which is seemingly the rose-tinted view of this thing from most. We cannot compete on a similar playing field outside of the EU than what we have done and could have done in it.

We were being subsumed by Brussels. We were losing our voice. The British Empire is well gone, but the Commonwealth is bigger than the EU. We can compete with anyone when we get off our knees and try.


You trust politicians to act in the best interest of the people - they have failed spectacularly.

Yet you are willing to trust unelected European politicians, very strange

 

[abelard]

Dear me, not this old chestnut again, both the Leave and Remain camps as well as the EU have stated this. We voted to leave, that means leaving the single market. You have no real suggestion do you apart from remaining in the EU....

Can you find these for me?

The Single Market and the Customs Union are not the same as the EU. This is why, as I explained, there are multiple examples of countries which are in the Single Market or Customs Union, but not the EU. Anyways, you were asking what I would do - not what the leave camp has said (I don't think they have actually done anything yet).

So in turn, what would you do to address the collapsing currency, spiraling inflation, stagnation of real wages, the worst economic growth rate in Europe, declining foreign investment, undermining of virtually all international trade deals, and general uncertainty which is already causing UK-based firms to reconsider - all of which stem directly from Brexit?

Or, how do you plan to address the fact that after Brexit, the UK will have to renegotiate over 700 trade deals, mostly with non-EU countries, just to maintain what it has?

I hope you have something more reasoned and concrete than "believing in ourselves."

 

[Tubey]

Sorry Pete, but I stopped reading at "we had little influence." We won 90% approx. of all decisions in the Council of Ministers and have a 13% influence, and can pretty much veto anything important if need be.

If you're going to start with an obvious provable lie then it's not worth continuing.

 

[peteblue]

Can you find these for me?

The Single Market and the Customs Union are not the same as the EU. This is why, as I explained, there are multiple examples of countries which are in the Single Market or Customs Union, but not the EU. Anyways, you were asking what I would do - not what the leave camp has said (I don't think they have actually done anything yet).

So in turn, what would you do to address the collapsing currency, spiraling inflation, stagnation of real wages, the worst economic growth rate in Europe, declining foreign investment, undermining of virtually all international trade deals, and general uncertainty which is already causing UK-based firms to reconsider - all of which stem directly from Brexit?

Or, how do you plan to address the fact that after Brexit, the UK will have to renegotiate over 700 trade deals, mostly with non-EU countries, just to maintain what it has?

I hope you have something more reasoned and concrete than "believing in ourselves."

Before the vote the BoE wanted the pound to be devalued to generate exports, this has happened. Employment is at an all time high, the public deficit has reduced such that we had a positive result last month for the first time in years. We are doing OK.

What are these 700 trade deals, there are not that many countries in the world, and non EU trade deals are covered by the EU in that each trade deal is signed off by each individual country of the EU and not by the EU which has no legal right. We will retain any such agreement.

What again is your point or suggestion....

 

[peteblue]

Sorry Pete, but I stopped reading at "we had little influence." We won 90% approx. of all decisions in the Council of Ministers and have a 13% influence, and can pretty much veto anything important if need be.

If you're going to start with an obvious provable lie then it's not worth continuing.

You are kidding yourself mate. The real issues were regarding technical compliances, which favoured Germany and its manufacturing base. We could veto anything that is true, so apart from the creation of a European army which we were told would never happen but now is, what veto did we wield..."

 

[abelard]

Before the vote the BoE wanted the pound to be devalued to generate exports, this has happened. Employment is at an all time high, the public deficit has reduced such that we had a positive result last month for the first time in years. We are doing OK.

What are these 700 trade deals, there are not that many countries in the world, and non EU trade deals are covered by the EU in that each trade deal is signed off by each individual country of the EU and not by the EU which has no legal right. We will retain any such agreement.

What again is your point or suggestion....

Can you find these for me?

Didn't think so

I hope you have something more reasoned and concrete than "believing in ourselves."

Didn't think so

About the 759 trade deals - you didn't read the article I linked to, did you?

 

[JammyP]

Can you find these for me?

The Single Market and the Customs Union are not the same as the EU. This is why, as I explained, there are multiple examples of countries which are in the Single Market or Customs Union, but not the EU. Anyways, you were asking what I would do - not what the leave camp has said (I don't think they have actually done anything yet).

So in turn, what would you do to address the collapsing currency, spiraling inflation, stagnation of real wages, the worst economic growth rate in Europe, declining foreign investment, undermining of virtually all international trade deals, and general uncertainty which is already causing UK-based firms to reconsider - all of which stem directly from Brexit?

Or, how do you plan to address the fact that after Brexit, the UK will have to renegotiate over 700 trade deals, mostly with non-EU countries, just to maintain what it has?

I hope you have something more reasoned and concrete than "believing in ourselves."

A lot of food for thought here, hot off the press from the Institute for Government:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/5704 IFG - Frictionless Trade Web_0.pdf

In summary:

"Brexit inevitably introduces friction to supply chains. There is no model of future relationship that can offer traders ‘the exact same benefits’ as EU membership. While there is no perfect solution, this paper explores each potential option and finds that they mitigate the introduction of new trade barriers in different ways:
• A deep and comprehensive free trade deal could, in theory, remove many obstacles if it went well beyond any agreement the EU has already concluded with another third country. Generally, the deeper the agreement, the greater the loss of control over laws and regulations. Without a softening of ‘red lines’ from either the UK or EU side, it is hard to see how a deal could prevent the introduction of any regulatory barriers. Even if it could, UK exporters would still have to prove that goods originated in the EU to qualify for preferential tariffs. A deal this comprehensive is unlikely to be concluded within the Article 50 window.
• A customs union agreement, like the arrangement between the EU and Turkey, could help to avoid origin checks. But Turkey is obliged to levy the EU’s common external tariff, which impedes its ability to run an independent trade policy. And as its Customs Union only applies to industrial goods, it still faces border checks on agricultural goods and its trucks cannot circulate freely within the EU. This means long tailbacks at the Turkish–Bulgarian border. The UK might seek to include agricultural goods in a customs union agreement (to avoid checks at the Irish border) – but the price would likely be to keep following EU rules.
• Staying in the Single Market, like Norway, would allow the UK to have an independent trade policy, but at the price of origin checks and accepting EU rules, with no formal say over them. This option goes the furthest in maintaining frictionless trade in terms of services, but exporters would still need to prove origin for goods and agricultural and fisheries products (which are not covered by the Single Market and face border checks). All Single Market members accept the ‘four freedoms’ and contribute to the EU budget.
• Membership of both the Single Market and a customs union arrangement comes the closest to minimising disruption. This may be needed as a transitional arrangement but as a permanent arrangement it is really just EU membership without the institutions or commitments and, crucially, without the political influence.
• Leaving with no deal is a recipe for maximum disruption. That no major trading partner trades with the EU on World Trade Organization (WTO) terms alone indicates the unattractiveness of this option. It would mean document checks, testing and inspection at the border. Tariffs would damage the competitiveness of many sectors."

 

[jal123]

£1 = e1.08


Nice one lads! Taking back control!

 

[peteblue]

£1 = e1.08


Nice one lads! Taking back control!

It just means that when we go to WTO rules any tariff's we will have to pay have already been covered by devaluation while keeping the products at existing Euro prices. Our goods will become more competitive and EU goods more expensive, due to tariffs and exchange rates, thereby giving us all a very good reason to buy British......

 

[neil999]

It just means that when we go to WTO rules any tariff's we will have to pay have already been covered by devaluation while keeping the products at existing Euro prices. Our goods will become more competitive and EU goods more expensive, due to tariffs and exchange rates, thereby giving us all a very good reason to buy British......

I dont have to buy british wine do i?

 

[peteblue]

Didn't think so



Didn't think so

About the 759 trade deals - you didn't read the article I linked to, did you?

It is perhaps worth remembering who gains from the existing trade deals....

Oh and it's also worth reminding ourselves that the trade deficit that we have run up with the EU is some £641Bn since the year 2000, having never once had a trade surplus.....and cost us countless Billions paying for the privilege......absolute madness.....

 

[peteblue]

I dont have to buy british wine do i?

No, buy anything other than French.....

 

[bobbydigital]

It just means that when we go to WTO rules any tariff's we will have to pay have already been covered by devaluation while keeping the products at existing Euro prices. Our goods will become more competitive and EU goods more expensive, due to tariffs and exchange rates, thereby giving us all a very good reason to buy British......

A very good reason? Can't afford to buy anything else so we have to buy British now.

Could be a bit of a problem if British products are made with foreign sourced materials though? These costs will get passed on to consumers. What happens then? Is that a very good reason to buy nothing?

 

[Brennan]

A very good reason? Can't afford to buy anything else so we have to buy British now.

Could be a bit of a problem if British products are made with foreign sourced materials though? These costs will get passed on to consumers. What happens then? Is that a very good reason to buy nothing?

Foreign goods which are currently cheap to buy becoming more expensive, translates to 'British goods being more competitive'. That's spin for you.

It's economic insanity. Rather than accepting that foreign goods are simply better value, we deliberately make them more expensive to make British goods appear the better choice. As you say, we're simply emptying our pockets for the sake of jingoism.

 

[bobbydigital]

Foreign goods which are currently cheap to buy becoming more expensive, translates to 'British goods being more competitive'. That's spin for you.

It's economic insanity. Rather than accepting that foreign goods are simply better value, we deliberately make them more expensive to make British goods appear the better choice. As you say, we're simply emptying our pockets for the sake of jingoism.

My point is more that British made goods will also get more expensive so if we don't buy foreign goods because they cost more, do we just go without when domestic goods cost more too?

I mean it's all very well to say "hooray, we don't have to buy German cars now, ours will be cheaper" but when ours are more expensive as well because we source materials from overseas, how is the consumer really winning? Our cars are now more expensive in the export market compared to foreign competitors, they are now more expensive to domestic consumers too (even if they are relatively cheaper domestically compared to foreign competitors). All this leads to an overall decrease in demand and eventually losses of jobs no matter how much "believing in Britain" everyone does. Economic insanity as you say.