Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

try terrorist attacks bruce in Paris and the UK recently the last 12 months deaths galore unfortunately!

Thankfully terrorist attacks are very rare events Joe. Consider this - http://voxeu.org/article/trade-costs-border-controls-schengen-area

"overall goods and services trade of EU28 countries declines, on average, by 4.2%, relative to the status quo in 2011; this corresponds to an annual decline in trade volumes of €221.34 billion compared to a counterfactual situation without any border controls imposed within the Schengen area."

In other words, reinstating border controls within the EU would cost the member states €221 billion in lost trade alone, aside from the cost in time and productivity of people waiting at border controls.

You might argue you can't put a price on a human life, but that's a pretty hefty one imo. I've argued before, and I'll argue again, the free movement of people within the EU is one of the greatest political achievements of the last 100 years and it saddens me enormously to be walking away from it.

 

[roydo]

try terrorist attacks bruce in Paris and the UK recently the last 12 months deaths galore unfortunately!

Seems odd putting a ! at the end of that sentence.

 

[Joey66]

Seems odd putting a ! at the end of that sentence.

I always put ! at the end of my posts -in the middle of posting pictures of former blues players on the everton picture thread - got called a racist on this thread last night its sorted tried to keep off it today but Bruce alerted me so i answered no offence to ! at the end of the post as I mainly do that - crime and multiple murders by terrorist is a bit different to what Bruce was mentioning that's all!
The tories used low crime figures to justify the reduction of police officers on the street EG!

 

[Joey66]

Thankfully terrorist attacks are very rare events Joe. Consider this - http://voxeu.org/article/trade-costs-border-controls-schengen-area

"overall goods and services trade of EU28 countries declines, on average, by 4.2%, relative to the status quo in 2011; this corresponds to an annual decline in trade volumes of €221.34 billion compared to a counterfactual situation without any border controls imposed within the Schengen area."

In other words, reinstating border controls within the EU would cost the member states €221 billion in lost trade alone, aside from the cost in time and productivity of people waiting at border controls.

You might argue you can't put a price on a human life, but that's a pretty hefty one imo. I've argued before, and I'll argue again, the free movement of people within the EU is one of the greatest political achievements of the last 100 years and it saddens me enormously to be walking away from it.

Bruce movement will still happen both ways - but controlled with a working visa nothing wrong in that is the?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce movement will still happen both ways - but controlled with a working visa nothing wrong in that is the?

Yes, I think there is.

 

[Joey66]

Yes, I think there is.

Why a free for all other countries have visas or a points system they still let people in!

 

[hullefc]

Why a free for all other countries have visas or a points system they still let people in!

How would that work on the island of Ireland?

 

[SteveSC]

How would that work on the island of Ireland?

Just the border itself will be a headache. Several roads go from east to west and south to north crossing the borders several times. One road crosses the border 5 or 6 times. So much so the BBC did an article about it.

But you are right in NI people can chose to be Irish and hold Irish passports or be British and hold the British passport. All part of the good friday agreement.

The chance the Irish up there take up a British passport is next to nil i reckon.

 

[SteveSC]

Why a free for all other countries have visas or a points system they still let people in!

This to me will be one of the biggest headaches for Britain. Just ask Australia and here in the US the headaches of running a visa system and maintaining it. The US biggest issue is manpower. They always have backlogs and waits can be up to 2 years.

Britain will have to employs thousands of new border agents and most likely upgrade infrastructure. They will also most likely then charge people the privilege to try recoup which would be a headache also.

Not forgetting the alien enforcement services like ICE here. that in itself will expand there.

 

[hullefc]

Just the border itself will be a headache. Several roads go from east to west and south to north crossing the borders several times. One road crosses the border 5 or 6 times. So much so the BBC did an article about it.

But you are right in NI people can chose to be Irish and hold Irish passports or be British and hold the British passport. All part of the good friday agreement.

The chance the Irish up there take up a British passport is next to nil i reckon.

It's the elephant in the room. In the Good Friday Agreement it states in the section,

RIGHTS, SAFEGUARDS AND EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY

Human Rights


"the right to freely choose one’s place of residence";

Anyone on the island of Ireland, that includes any EU citizen that comes to Ireland, or lives there now, can go and live anywhere on Ireland, without any checks on their passports between the two parts.

The government could be forced to accept special status for Northern Ireland. Passport checks for those wanting to go to England, Wales or Scotland would be checked in the north of the island. Something the DUP is not to keen on.

 

[SteveSC]

It's the elephant in the room. In the Good Friday Agreement it states in the section,

RIGHTS, SAFEGUARDS AND EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY

Human Rights


"the right to freely choose one’s place of residence";

Anyone on the island of Ireland, that includes any EU citizen that comes to Ireland, or lives there now, can go and live anywhere on Ireland, without any checks on their passports between the two parts.

The government could be forced to accept special status for Northern Ireland. Passport checks for those wanting to go to England, Wales or Scotland would be checked in the north of the island. Something the DUP is not to keen on.

Bang on and

The highlighted to me is the only logical solution. Do what they do in certain airports for the US. For example there is an entire section in Dublin airport for US border protection where your visas get checked there before you head to the US.

 

[Joey66]

Bang on and

The highlighted to me is the only logical solution. Do what they do in certain airports for the US. For example there is an entire section in Dublin airport for US border protection where your visas get checked there before you head to the US.

Technology today can easily speed things up!

 

[SteveSC]

Technology today can easily speed things up!

That easy is it? Thanks for clearing that up, haha!!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why a free for all other countries have visas or a points system they still let people in!

Other countries are wrong. We have something fantastic here. Best in the world.

 

[hullefc]

Bang on and

The highlighted to me is the only logical solution. Do what they do in certain airports for the US. For example there is an entire section in Dublin airport for US border protection where your visas get checked there before you head to the US.

However, that is for travelling through Dublin.

An EU citizen is allowed to enter Ireland now and travel onwards to the north and no passport needs to be shown. That may have to continue after the UK leaves the EU, due to the residency criteria in the Good Friday Agreement. Unless there is a special arrangement.

There will have to be a special arrangement that checks more thoroughly an EU citizens travel arrangements when they go to Ireland - in other words against the free movement that is acceptable to Dublin and the other EU members. If there is not a special arrangement, any EU citizen can travel to Dublin, as before, get on a train or in a car and travel to the north without having to show their passport. If they want to travel from the north of Ireland to England, Wales and Scotland they will have to get a visa if that is the arrangement. If it is denied they will have to be held in a detention centre in the north. There can't be checks on the citizens of the island of Ireland travelling throughout Ireland.