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However, that is for travelling through Dublin.

An EU citizen is allowed to enter Ireland now and travel onwards to the north and no passport needs to be shown. That may have to continue after the UK leaves the EU, due to the residency criteria in the Good Friday Agreement. Unless there is a special arrangement.

There will have to be a special arrangement that checks more thoroughly an EU citizens travel arrangements when they go to Ireland - in other words against the free movement that is acceptable to Dublin and the other EU members. If there is not a special arrangement, any EU citizen can travel to Dublin, as before, get on a train or in a car and travel to the north without having to show their passport. If they want to travel from the north of Ireland to England, Wales and Scotland they will have to get a visa if that is the arrangement. If it is denied they will have to be held in a detention centre in the north. There can't be checks on the citizens of the island of Ireland travelling throughout Ireland.

Very good point.

What i was highlighting though is Ireland and Americas choice to create a Immigration option in Dublin before takeoff rather than at landing in the US.

It could be adopted to suit any countries issue with immigration. The UK could do something similar for the UK flight leaving Belfast and the ports.

Obviously a section of the airport would be separated for this.

Now getting to your point. I cannot see the Irish government changing anything to accommodate Britain because its their issue not ours. We already allow EU citizens to move freely in our country south and north.

I would imagine just like if a European was to go to the US with a visa or a waiver and then tried to go to Canada or Mexico they would be dealt with at the border they try to cross. I'm not sure if they have some sort of agreement or you arrive and get assessed etc....

If the Brits decide to leave the border open between southern and NI i'm not sure what they would expect the south to do.

But you are right it is all a conundrum that extends beyond Britain the EU will no doubt have something to say about it.
 
That easy is it? Thanks for clearing that up, haha!!
Cameras on the Irish open border it was an open border in the 1920's this EU is not as good as you think it is!
Running our country treating Greece like dirt unelected upper house overpaid prima donas great for our freedom back our laws back et etc!
 
Cameras on the Irish open border it was an open border in the 1920's this EU is not as good as you think it is!
Running our country treating Greece like dirt unelected upper house overpaid prima donas great for our freedom back our laws back et etc!

It wasn't.

In the 20's marked the start of Ireland becoming a free state and the countries were formally split. The north being kept and the south looking for independence since it had jsut become a free state.

At that time the British army closed of the border and inspected travelers going north and south. Although mainly a customs border it did fluctuate and then of course during the troubles it closed and people were asked for ID etc...

Ireland did not become a member state until the 70's FYI if you are suggesting the EU even existed in the 20's then you need to go look up history.

Also you are not going to convince me that the EU are evil.

Do they have their flaws? Yes, i believe they do.

But as an Irishman who grew up in a country which benefited from the EU financially and as a result the country was able to prosper with foreign investment I believe it has been good for Europe. Again some of it is flawed and needs tweaking i do agree with that.

Also you do realize when the UK leaves the EU, England then becomes responsible for Northern Ireland and Scotland right? Right now the majority of their funding is from the EU.
 
Very good point.

What i was highlighting though is Ireland and Americas choice to create a Immigration option in Dublin before takeoff rather than at landing in the US.

It could be adopted to suit any countries issue with immigration. The UK could do something similar for the UK flight leaving Belfast and the ports.

Obviously a section of the airport would be separated for this.

Now getting to your point. I cannot see the Irish government changing anything to accommodate Britain because its their issue not ours. We already allow EU citizens to move freely in our country south and north.

I would imagine just like if a European was to go to the US with a visa or a waiver and then tried to go to Canada or Mexico they would be dealt with at the border they try to cross. I'm not sure if they have some sort of agreement or you arrive and get assessed etc....

If the Brits decide to leave the border open between southern and NI i'm not sure what they would expect the south to do.

But you are right it is all a conundrum that extends beyond Britain the EU will no doubt have something to say about it.

A long document but starts to deal with the issue.

The Impact and Consequences of Brexit for Northern Ireland

"During the 2016 UK EU referendum campaign, the future UK Prime Minister, Theresa May, asked: ‘if the UK pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and had access to free movement?’ Since then, the UK government has been more emollient in terms of what is envisaged regarding visible partition. In the UK Government’s Brexit White Paper, the maintenance of the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland was listed as one of the twelve negotiating priorities.

However, regular assurances of ‘no return to the borders of the past’ have not been accompanied by clarity over what is proposed. Moreover, the ‘borders of the past’ have changed largely due to the improved security situation. There is no demand for control of the movement of people across the border from any political parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Up to 30,000 workers are ‘cross-border’ in that they live and work on different sides of the Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland border and would be directly inconvenienced by border checks. Seven per cent of Northern Ireland’s employees are drawn from the European Economic Area, a figure exceeded in the UK only in London. In the event of a lack of control of movement across the border, EU immigrants in search of UK work could enter the UK across the border unchallenged. They could reside in Northern Ireland or across the Irish Sea in Great Britain. The immigration policing operation, Operation Gull, currently monitors non-EU illegal immigration into Britain via Northern Ireland. This could be extended to deal with immigration from EU countries but would require additional resources.

Immigration policy for Northern Ireland is not a matter for the Northern Ireland Assembly. It is a power reserved for Westminster. If the UK government devolved this power to the Assembly, it would allow local control over entry into Northern Ireland and maintain a ‘soft’ border, but there is zero prospect of such devolution.

UK immigration policy may become a de facto British immigration policy, in that controls are maintained at mainland ports rather than at UK’s only land frontier. In effect, there would be no control of cross-border movement on the island of Ireland and the UK could conceivably confine its border control frontier to England, Scotland and Wales. This would potentially place Northern Ireland within a more overtly ‘Irish context’, a feature which would be welcomed by nationalists but might concern some unionists. UK immigration controls could be shifted towards Irish ports and airports in the same way that immigration clearance for entry into the United States is undertaken at Dublin Airport. The Ulster Unionist Party has suggested that ‘imaginative new arrangements could draw on the experience of the Republic surrendering sovereignty at Dublin Airport to the United States for customs and security clearance, and the Calais model where HM Government part funds the arrangement in France’. However, the existence of a similar facility for the UK in Ireland would be much more politically sensitive given the historical context. As such, this policy option of a shift in the location of controls may not be feasible".

Highly unlike that the Irish republic will put extra check on EU citizens, so they would be free to come to Ireland and move wherever they chose. However, the UK government has said the Common Travel Area is up for negotiation which means a border in the island of Ireland could lead to a Calais situation on the border. Or of no border, the north would act as a holding area for EU citizens if they chose to go north - something the DUP don't want.

There will also have to be alterations to the Good Friday Agreement.
 
It wasn't.

In the 20's marked the start of Ireland becoming a free state and the countries were formally split. The north being kept and the south looking for independence since it had jsut become a free state.

At that time the British army closed of the border and inspected travelers going north and south. Although mainly a customs border it did fluctuate and then of course during the troubles it closed and people were asked for ID etc...

Ireland did not become a member state until the 70's FYI if you are suggesting the EU even existed in the 20's then you need to go look up history.

Also you are not going to convince me that the EU are evil.

Do they have their flaws? Yes, i believe they do.

But as an Irishman who grew up in a country which benefited from the EU financially and as a result the country was able to prosper with foreign investment I believe it has been good for Europe. Again some of it is flawed and needs tweaking i do agree with that.

Also you do realize when the UK leaves the EU, England then becomes responsible for Northern Ireland and Scotland right? Right now the majority of their funding is from the EU.
From the EU your joking we are the 2nd biggest contributor finalcily I take it you stated you live in Southern Ireland ?
Then it's if some very self interested view - the EU COST US 8 Billion loss each year from the UK funds - that's one hell of a lot of money to spend, and control our affairs worldwide in a club that's treading water financially they rip us off ok!
 
A long document but starts to deal with the issue.

The Impact and Consequences of Brexit for Northern Ireland

"During the 2016 UK EU referendum campaign, the future UK Prime Minister, Theresa May, asked: ‘if the UK pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and had access to free movement?’ Since then, the UK government has been more emollient in terms of what is envisaged regarding visible partition. In the UK Government’s Brexit White Paper, the maintenance of the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland was listed as one of the twelve negotiating priorities.

However, regular assurances of ‘no return to the borders of the past’ have not been accompanied by clarity over what is proposed. Moreover, the ‘borders of the past’ have changed largely due to the improved security situation. There is no demand for control of the movement of people across the border from any political parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Up to 30,000 workers are ‘cross-border’ in that they live and work on different sides of the Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland border and would be directly inconvenienced by border checks. Seven per cent of Northern Ireland’s employees are drawn from the European Economic Area, a figure exceeded in the UK only in London. In the event of a lack of control of movement across the border, EU immigrants in search of UK work could enter the UK across the border unchallenged. They could reside in Northern Ireland or across the Irish Sea in Great Britain. The immigration policing operation, Operation Gull, currently monitors non-EU illegal immigration into Britain via Northern Ireland. This could be extended to deal with immigration from EU countries but would require additional resources.

Immigration policy for Northern Ireland is not a matter for the Northern Ireland Assembly. It is a power reserved for Westminster. If the UK government devolved this power to the Assembly, it would allow local control over entry into Northern Ireland and maintain a ‘soft’ border, but there is zero prospect of such devolution.

UK immigration policy may become a de facto British immigration policy, in that controls are maintained at mainland ports rather than at UK’s only land frontier. In effect, there would be no control of cross-border movement on the island of Ireland and the UK could conceivably confine its border control frontier to England, Scotland and Wales. This would potentially place Northern Ireland within a more overtly ‘Irish context’, a feature which would be welcomed by nationalists but might concern some unionists. UK immigration controls could be shifted towards Irish ports and airports in the same way that immigration clearance for entry into the United States is undertaken at Dublin Airport. The Ulster Unionist Party has suggested that ‘imaginative new arrangements could draw on the experience of the Republic surrendering sovereignty at Dublin Airport to the United States for customs and security clearance, and the Calais model where HM Government part funds the arrangement in France’. However, the existence of a similar facility for the UK in Ireland would be much more politically sensitive given the historical context. As such, this policy option of a shift in the location of controls may not be feasible".

Highly unlike that the Irish republic will put extra check on EU citizens, so they would be free to come to Ireland and move wherever they chose. However, the UK government has said the Common Travel Area is up for negotiation which means a border in the island of Ireland could lead to a Calais situation on the border. Or of no border, the north would act as a holding area for EU citizens if they chose to go north - something the DUP don't want.

There will also have to be alterations to the Good Friday Agreement.

Glad to see someone out there agree haha!! At least they are discussing all aspects its important they get it right. It won't be easy.

If the last paragraph is yours i agree with it 100% although i agree with it even if its not your paragraph haha!!

As for the good Friday agreement i think that will be the biggest headache for them. Its not going to be easy get the assembly up north as in both sides to agree to renegotiate this. That and the Irish government might be hesitant to want to change it if it affects Ireland and its people as a whole.
 
From the EU your joking we are the 2nd biggest contributor finalcily I take it you stated you live in Southern Ireland ?
Then it's if some very self interested view - the EU COST US 8 Billion loss each year from the UK funds - that's one hell of a lot of money to spend, and control our affairs worldwide in a club that's treading water financially they rip us off ok!


I am from the Irish Republic yes. I live in the US now.

Its not a self interested view how naive that statement is. What you don't think i should be grateful for a group of nations to help my country get on its feet so then we can prosper and hopefully give back by paying taxes and spending in the single market etc...

Many countries profited from EU grants and loans. That's the whole point of membership. Help each other out and become a single market.

As for the costing Britain 8 billion and boohoo you could have used it elsewhere. I wont touch that as you seem to be deep with the hardliner support for the Anti EU rhetoric so any informed stats i throw at you or anyone throws at you i'm sure you guys have prepared statements.

All i am saying is i see the benefits and my country has over the years. If Britain wants out so be it good luck with that.
 
Glad to see someone out there agree haha!! At least they are discussing all aspects its important they get it right. It won't be easy.

If the last paragraph is yours i agree with it 100% although i agree with it even if its not your paragraph haha!!

As for the good Friday agreement i think that will be the biggest headache for them. Its not going to be easy get the assembly up north as in both sides to agree to renegotiate this. That and the Irish government might be hesitant to want to change it if it affects Ireland and its people as a whole.

The last paragraph is mine.

All references to the EU - peace, finance, security, EU related cross-border institutes etc. will have to be removed from the Good Friday Agreement. The DUP have stated they don't like the provision for a vote on a united Ireland and would most certainly want it removed from a revised GFA. The DUP think they have the government where they want them.
 
The last paragraph is mine.

All references to the EU - peace, finance, security, EU related cross-border institutes etc. will have to be removed from the Good Friday Agreement. The DUP have stated they don't like the provision for a vote on a united Ireland and would most certainly want it removed from a revised GFA. The DUP think they have the government where they want them.

Then well said my friend and yeah the DUP will be a big headache for both government i suspect haha!! They won't do themselves any favour with their own people in the north either. Well their hardliners will still support them. They are very much like Trump supporters as are some of the pro brexit people it seems.
 
I am from the Irish Republic yes. I live in the US now.

Its not a self interested view how naive that statement is. What you don't think i should be grateful for a group of nations to help my country get on its feet so then we can prosper and hopefully give back by paying taxes and spending in the single market etc...

Many countries profited from EU grants and loans. That's the whole point of membership. Help each other out and become a single market.

As for the costing Britain 8 billion and boohoo you could have used it elsewhere. I wont touch that as you seem to be deep with the hardliner support for the Anti EU rhetoric so any informed stats i throw at you or anyone throws at you i'm sure you guys have prepared statements.

All i am saying is i see the benefits and my country has over the years. If Britain wants out so be it good luck with that.
they have total free movement in the USA then lol no chance!
my an opinion on someone who gets the best of both worlds I take it you wont like applying for a visa to travel to the UK then?
yet if I wanted to uproot to the USA atm its just free movement hey ho!
 
Then well said my friend and yeah the DUP will be a big headache for both government i suspect haha!! They won't do themselves any favour with their own people in the north either. Well their hardliners will still support them. They are very much like Trump supporters as are some of the pro brexit people it seems.

To keep their 'supporters' on side they have to get a lot of money for the north to show that 'it is worthwhile financially to stay in the UK'. In particular considering the DUP are pushing for a hard Brexit which will automatically mean a hard border and the potential lose of trade. Made worse if there is not a 'free trade agreement' between the UK and the EU.

The government offered the DUP £750 million - money from the magic money tree, no less - but DUP want £2 billion because they think they have the upper hand. Scotland and Wales will look on with bemusement if Northern Ireland gets a big settlement. It will not play out well politically for the Tories in Scotland.
 
Not after Brexit it was ok. Before the EU or common market cultures came on from all over so your argument is a weak one the EU will not stop only control immigration!

I feel we're going round in circles Joe, but I've told you already that I feel controlling immigration is wrong, and I've shown you clear evidence that uncontrolled immigration is not only better economically and socially, but also has no impact on crime levels. It would be nice if you could return with something similar to back up your assertion other than 'other countries do it'.
 
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