Current Affairs EU In or Out

[edge]

I think anything that relates to the military, shared intelligence, universal collaboration etc should be left off the table personally.

I don't see what it gives us anyway barring looking like we're grasping for straws.

Devide and conquer , tactics eastern block are already flecking the muscles in the EU, there interests are not the same the as the German/French combo who haven't got the Ruskies on the doorstep.
Bit below the belt really but that looks like the game there in.

 

[peteblue]

But surely if the boot was on the other foot you'd label that leveraging your position?

How can you accuse the EU of 'bullying' for merely setting out their stall?

It's the latest ridiculous narrative being spun to stir up jingoism and make the seemingly inevitable cliff edge of WTO terms seem like the 'only' option imo. The nasty EU bullied us so we had no choice but to flounce off.

Not really. It has always been down to the EU to agree a sensible deal, the U.K. have always said that we will do one, so if a deal cannot be done it will be down to the EU anyway. The EU has developed some rather unpleasant attitude problems as it tried to become a Global power. It's figurehead, Juncker, neatly represents all that is wrong with it with the EU Commission getting a bit too big for its boots. The problem for it is that it occupies a shrinking percentage of world trade and really only ever had 3 or 4 countries of any worth with one of those now deciding that we don't want to belong to a corrupt organisation.

When May included a comment on security they went bananas, yet immediately come back with a direct threat against Gibraltar. If you cannot see how the Commission seeks to bully (Greece understands) then you never will.

I've been pretty consistent since before the vote that I'd take WTO as a result.....

 

[peteblue]

Do you think our (USA) budget proposals for military spending are reasonable?

Depends what you want. The USA could reduce theirs considerably and still have the whip hand, however if you can afford it and wish to have overwhelming Military superiority for security and influence (besides contributing to technology and the economy) then why not. I wish we could afford to spend those sums of money.....

 

[peteblue]

I think anything that relates to the military, shared intelligence, universal collaboration etc should be left off the table personally.

I don't see what it gives us anyway barring looking like we're grasping for straws.

Of course you do, because it's one of our strengths. Where do you stand on the EU trying to use Gibraltar as a bargaining chip ?.......

 

[peteblue]

Devide and conquer , tactics eastern block are already flecking the muscles in the EU, there interests are not the same the as the German/French combo who haven't got the Ruskies on the doorstep.
Bit below the belt really but that looks like the game there in.

And we should play it as hard as possible.....

 

[peteblue]

Bring back national service Pete sort the liberals out.☺
Actually i am in favour of a national defence force, only for use on home soil.

It would change the demographics of our nation that's for sure.....

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Of course you do, because it's one of our strengths. Where do you stand on the EU trying to use Gibraltar as a bargaining chip ?.......

Give us a free trade deal or we'll not share information on terrorist activity or continue with our NATO commitments?

Sounds like a plan Pete. Cunning.

 

[JonS]

Unchecked patriotism will lead to unhealthy isolation and thats not good for any society as a whole.

I voted Brexit because I want to see us looking to the world and not just to Europe.

If I think of my identity it's a free man, not a number (Prisoner reference there for those that know it), and a world citizen, but I feel much more identity as a British than I do as a European.

In summary I'd like us to look to all countries equally and what trade and immigration we do have be balanced among all parts of the world and not just Europe.

Despite the fears of drama in voters in here we are NOT heading for mass racism or facial, or even, I believe, isolationism.

I'm ok with a bit of patriotism. Id like us to use our history with countries (eg the commonwealth countries and others too) positively and constructively to do good and become truly world centric.

While the EU try their best to stop their overinflated over bureaucratic, vested interests burgeoning superstate falling apart we will be free and unencumbered at last to make trade and other agreements with the whole world.

 

[JonS]

I said 'casual' racism and posting words that wouldn't look out of place in a Stan Boardman Germans routine were imo.

Others may disagree, and that doesn't mean I was inferring you were a racist though, as I don't know you and wouldn't accuse anyone of that without irrefutable evidence. So I can assure you that wasn't my intention.

I only mentioned it as part of a wider point, that there seems to be a change in tack from the Tories and the avid Leave supporters in the last few days / weeks, which was highlighted by Howard's crass and inflammatory comments over the weekend, and I'm certain we're being softened up for what now seems to the inevitable hardest of hard Brexit.

You may not have been outright calling me a racist but you we're saying I posted casual racism.

Actually what I posted was Dads Army rather than Stan Boardman and I used it specifically to refer to what I see (and you may differ) as the EUs authoritarianism (I might just have easily referred to it as the EUSSR).

Racism would be something against a race or country of people and although I did hint at nazis this was directed at the EU institution and not particular people.

If there was a slight stereotyping of an authoritarian tendency in Germany or possibly German people this was done for comedic effect and I cant believe would be offensive ((if another country in their comedy stereotyped the Brits a bit, as I'm sure they do, I really wouldn't mind)

And in terms of experiencing stereotyping I would suggest us Brexiteers experience it regularly on here where the implication can often be that we must be racist.

 

[Blue 1]

Gibraltar eh?

The people of this country voted decisively for a war against Spain. We won, you lost, get over it!

 

[JonS]

when you opted out of Schengen

Fair point mate. I wasn't too clear of the details of the Swiss model but have just looked it up. Cheers for educating me

While looking it up I learned that the Swiss have voted in a referendum to introduce immigration quotas violating Schengen. What's happening about that?

And aren't there various Eastern European countries like Hungary doing something similar?

What action is being taken about them?

 

[Ruairi77]

I voted Brexit because I want to see us looking to the world and not just to Europe.

If I think of my identity it's a free man, not a number (Prisoner reference there for those that know it), and a world citizen, but I feel much more identity as a British than I do as a European.

In summary I'd like us to look to all countries equally and what trade and immigration we do have be balanced among all parts of the world and not just Europe.

Despite the fears of drama in voters in here we are NOT heading for mass racism or facial, or even, I believe, isolationism.

I'm ok with a bit of patriotism. Id like us to use our history with countries (eg the commonwealth countries and others too) positively and constructively to do good and become truly world centric.

While the EU try their best to stop their overinflated over bureaucratic, vested interests burgeoning superstate falling apart we will be free and unencumbered at last to make trade and other agreements with the whole world.

I dont think any citizen of the EU sees them selves as European ahead of their national identity.
I hear you on the trade thing, just seems like a huge price to pay for individual trade deals.
I thought you had it good in Europe, you had made some good deals and it worked well for both parties.
I think you could have negotiated even more favorable terms had you not called the referendum.
The more it continues, the more bizarre the decision seems to me.
I think a lot of people are using the hope of better economic fortune to hide a patriotism that's based on a rose tinted view of days of yore!
I think you've been pretty straight up about why you voted and I guess only time will tell whether you made the right decision.

 

[Ruairi77]

Fair point mate. I wasn't too clear of the details of the Swiss model but have just looked it up. Cheers for educating me

While looking it up I learned that the Swiss have voted in a referendum to introduce immigration quotas violating Schengen. What's happening about that?

And aren't there various Eastern European countries like Hungary doing something similar?

What action is being taken about them?

Not sure, but I reckon you're better in than out to shape these policies.

 

[JonS]

Not sure, but I reckon you're better in than out to shape these policies.

A lot of people think better to stay in and shape/improve/reform EU but I think it's difficult to impossible.

Id suggest that the real reason people voted as they did was according to whether they felt strongly about Britain being able to make its own decisions or whether they felt better in a union with the other countries.

I reckon it also has to do with how risk averse one is. Risk averse people are more likely to have voted remain whereas those more willing to take risks were more likely to have voted leave

 

[edge]

A lot of people think better to stay in and shape/improve/reform EU but I think it's difficult to impossible.

Id suggest that the real reason people voted as they did was according to whether they felt strongly about Britain being able to make its own decisions or whether they felt better in a union with the other countries.

I reckon it also has to do with how risk averse one is. Risk averse people are more likely to have voted remain whereas those more willing to take risks were more likely to have voted leave

If Cameron had come back with anything off Merkel and her puppets, prior to the vote it would have been a win for remain nailed on, think people who thought it could be changed from within realised just how much distain the EU had for there concern s and flipped over to the leave side.
Myself i wanted out anyway but i realised they had shot themselves in the foot with that charade.