Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

The salient point is, that the perception they were given was that it was going to improve their lives, it won't though, it'll put an even bigger squeeze on their disposable income as inflation rises in a stagnant wage environment. They were sold a pup - by far right Tories.

There were only pups on sale, though.

 

[Tubey]

Hold on Tubey, who are you saying exploited fear and negativity...that was pretty well the only message from the Remain camp.....I don't remember hearing about all the benefits of being a member of the EU.......

Because you decided to not listen. There's no point me going over it; Google the benefits if you want.

You won't, as you aren't interested, but it's all there.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I read. You said we sent a GROSS amount of £350m.

And I'm telling you we never did. The rebate is taken before we send anything.

Therefore:

... is a complete, bald-faced lie.

Let's break it down sentence by sentence.

1. "We send the EU £350m million a week"

We don't.

2. "Let's fund our NHS instead."

We can't, as we don't send the EU £350 million a week.

Is that easy enough to understand?

But you'll say "that was just a slogan" I guess?

OK, here's a quote on Radio 4 by Gisela Stuart.

Once again, a complete, bald-faced lie. From the co-chair of the campaign. On record.

You are wrong sir. Completely and utterly wrong.

I accept your point about the wording on the bus. See, Leavers are reasonable. Post-Brexit, when all is done, we should send them jack-all. Then we will control that part of our finances. Simples!

But consider these:
Ros Altmann, pensions expert: "...If Britain were to leave Europe our economy would go into recession. That would inevitably put people's pensions at risk..." Utter bullsh1t.
Richard Branson: "...Leaving the EU 'would be very, very, damaging for Britain'"...". A successful businessman talking crap.
Mark Carney: "...Leaving the EU is the biggest domestic risk to financial stability..." Really? The biggest risk is the continuing Tory cuts which reduce servies and cut jobs. What an idiot in his financial ivory tower!
Cameron's £9million+ pamphlet: "...The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU (bold type as in the original leaflet)...". Yeah, David, it's called a pariah.
The leaflet again: "...If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shockwould put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods and damage living standards...". You what? Are you therefore saying that inflation has never existed, but vote out and prices will suddenly rise because of it? What an utter load of scaremongering rubbish.
The leaflet again: "...Our EU membership magnifies the UK's ability to get its way on the issues we care about..." Bursts out laughing at this point...

 

[Old Blue 2]

Right, I'm out of this tsunami of whingeing by the Remainers.

I thought it would be hilarious today, and it was.

'til the next time!

 

[neil999]

I accept your point about the wording on the bus. See, Leavers are reasonable. Post-Brexit, when all is done, we should send them jack-all. Then we will control that part of our finances. Simples!

But consider these:
Ros Altmann, pensions expert: "...If Britain were to leave Europe our economy would go into recession. That would inevitably put people's pensions at risk..." Utter bullsh1t.
Richard Branson: "...Leaving the EU 'would be very, very, damaging for Britain'"...". A successful businessman talking crap.
Mark Carney: "...Leaving the EU is the biggest domestic risk to financial stability..." Really? The biggest risk is the continuing Tory cuts which reduce servies and cut jobs. What an idiot in his financial ivory tower!
Cameron's £9million+ pamphlet: "...The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU (bold type as in the original leaflet)...". Yeah, David, it's called a pariah.
The leaflet again: "...If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shockwould put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods and damage living standards...". You what? Are you therefore saying that inflation has never existed, but vote out and prices will suddenly rise because of it? What an utter load of scaremongering rubbish.
The leaflet again: "...Our EU membership magnifies the UK's ability to get its way on the issues we care about..." Bursts out laughing at this point...

everything you have stated there are opinions and hypothesis not straight 'facts' like the 350 mill lie

 

[peteblue]

Because you decided to not listen. There's no point me going over it; Google the benefits if you want.

You won't, as you aren't interested, but it's all there.

Try reading some of the early posts in here, especially Esk's view of immediate financial armageddon, in fact didn't Cameron even get WW3 into one speech. The whole Remain premise was based on fear. As was asked a few posts back, if the question had been about joining the EU it would have been a rout.......

 

[Tubey]

I accept your point about the wording on the bus. See, Leavers are reasonable. Post-Brexit, when all is done, we should send them jack-all. Then we will control that part of our finances. Simples!

But consider these:
Ros Altmann, pensions expert: "...If Britain were to leave Europe our economy would go into recession. That would inevitably put people's pensions at risk..." Utter bullsh1t.
Richard Branson: "...Leaving the EU 'would be very, very, damaging for Britain'"...". A successful businessman talking crap.
Mark Carney: "...Leaving the EU is the biggest domestic risk to financial stability..." Really? The biggest risk is the continuing Tory cuts which reduce servies and cut jobs. What an idiot in his financial ivory tower!
Cameron's £9million+ pamphlet: "...The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU (bold type as in the original leaflet)...". Yeah, David, it's called a pariah.
The leaflet again: "...If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shockwould put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods and damage living standards...". You what? Are you therefore saying that inflation has never existed, but vote out and prices will suddenly rise because of it? What an utter load of scaremongering rubbish.
The leaflet again: "...Our EU membership magnifies the UK's ability to get its way on the issues we care about..." Bursts out laughing at this point...

No, not "simples", because the money we do send them results in economic benefits massively outweighing the cost.

All of those quotes are opinions, not promises, and they are based on stats and figures by the likes of the IFS, not lies.

The two points from whatever leaflet you are quoting at the bottom - first one, that's already happened as a direct result of Brexit and will in all likelihood continue. That's beyond dispute. Second, the EU membership enabled us to get our way on votes we cared about in that organisation much more often than not, because we were a power in that organisation. Now we're not in it, we have no say on issues that effect 44% of our trade.

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-does-britain-get-its-way-at-the-european-top-table-58610

So the leaflet is objectively a statement of fact. The fact you burst out laughing at it is because you actually have very little knowledge on what you are laughing at.

 

[Tubey]

everything you have stated there are opinions and hypothesis not straight 'facts' like the 350 mill lie

Spot on, but he legitimately doesn't know the difference and is probably incapable of ever learning it. That is quite clear at this point.

 

[edge]

like Toyota and Qatar you mean? investing - we did survive without the EU even though we were pushed into it without votes we have now had one and its goodbye to an unnecessary bureaucratic party union of 28 countries when only three contributed all the rest were net contributors - the first thing they want is a pay off as we have left a massive hole of 12 billion in their budget!
they can dream on!

Germany 14 billion
UK 12 billion
France 6 billion
The rest get more out of it than they put in.
Already in a mess now we have gone it's up to the Germany to bail them out or its going to go belly up.
Let's see how many want to join or remain when they will be getting nothing out of it.

 

[Joey66]

A campaign promise wasn't entirely true? Maybe even a lie?



The bus is a desperate attempt for some to try and understand the vote.

"It was the bus. The bus and that message"

Separately, this made me laugh a lot.

View attachment 35765

Nick Clegg of all people demanding politicians be held to account for promises they made.

Nick Clegg.

Pity his feet could not be held to the coals over Cleggs free tuition fees two faced politician ruined the Lib Dems for his power urge too!

 

[orchard]

I reckon may's emulating trump in the bs and sophistry stakes. Not at all confident that the Spiv's will do a reasonable job. Especially in the light of this:


http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-eu-document-reveals-tough-brexit-talks-2017-3

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

He doesn't even speak for the Leave voters on here...

I speak for myself, and never purported to speak for 17m leave voters, I was passing comment on a section of society that helped deliver the result, a section that you don't form part of btw.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Richard Branson: "...Leaving the EU 'would be very, very, damaging for Britain'"...". A successful businessman talking crap.
Mark Carney: "...Leaving the EU is the biggest domestic risk to financial stability..." Really? The biggest risk is the continuing Tory cuts which reduce servies and cut jobs. What an idiot in his financial ivory tower!
Cameron's £9million+ pamphlet: "...The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU (bold type as in the original leaflet)...". Yeah, David, it's called a pariah.
The leaflet again: "...If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shockwould put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods and damage living standards...". You what? Are you therefore saying that inflation has never existed, but vote out and prices will suddenly rise because of it? What an utter load of scaremongering rubbish.
The leaflet again: "...Our EU membership magnifies the UK's ability to get its way on the issues we care about..." Bursts out laughing at this point...

Branson shares the view that the referendum was won on a false premise, he also thinks Brexit is a crap idea, as do virtually half of the populous.

Carney's view that leaving the EU is the biggest domestic risk to our financial stability, isn't subjective it's an obvious fact. Tory cuts to public services will be an eventual by product of the inevitable retraction in our economy, they're going to borrow an additional £58BN to try and kick the can down the road in the medium term. So therefore he's already been proved right, I've no idea how you can decry this comment from Carney tbh.

As for the leaflet comments on inflation - are you actually being serious? It's already happening, inflation now stands at 2.3%, it was 1% in 2015. It's rise is being directly driven by the drop in the value of the pound, we operate at a trade deficit so import more than we export, our currency tumbling against the Dollar and Euro means that the cost of both raw materials and goods imports have increased. For the latter half of 2016 most of this increase caused by the devaluation (12-15%) was held in the supply chain, due largely to fixed term supply agreements with the big supermarkets. But the supply chain can't absorb this increase indefinitely and it's now finding it's way into the RPI, and inflation is rising, and forecast to continue doing so. It's called basic economics mate.

 

[Number_25]

I'm not going to overreact or anything, but I hope that in a few years time when everything is said and done - we'll be able to string up Gove, Johnson, Davis, Mogg, and anyone that voted for this utter shambles and lob house bricks at them.

Complete and utter meffs, them and anyone who supports their stance.

 

[Ruairi77]

Good old Onion