Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Gwladysstreetlad]

He may not be that popular in the Commons but his particular brand of dog-whistle LittleEnglandism will always resonate in the shires, and, of course, he has powerful allies in the press, otherwise this risible claptrap wouldn't be published in the first place.

Write him off at your peril.

He's a joke in the conservative party and outside of it. Nobody takes this clown seriously, he might have friends in the press and good luck to him with that because he's got nobody outside it. He's an embarrassment and he knows it.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Lol at the idea that anyone voted to leave based on anything Michael Gove said! Literally nobody on either side of the divide cares what this moron says.

 

[tadao]

He's a joke in the conservative party and outside of it. Nobody takes this clown seriously, he might have friends in the press and good luck to him with that because he's got nobody outside it. He's an embarrassment and he knows it.

Lol at the idea that anyone voted to leave based on anything Michael Gove said! Literally nobody on either side of the divide cares what this moron says.

Unfortunately, it appears that some (lots) did.
The problem with the assumption of him being disagreeable and that nobody will listen to him, is that there are people who do!

 

[1966efc]

Unfortunately, it appears that some (lots) did.
The problem with the assumption of him being disagreeable and that nobody will listen to him, is that there are people who do!

Forgive me for mentioning that you seem to be making an assumption about both Gove and the public's response to him.

Shall we have a truce on assumption and rely instead on the (very little) evidence.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Forgive me for mentioning that you seem to be making an assumption about both Gove and the public's response to him.

Shall we have a truce on assumption and rely instead on the (very little) evidence.

Fair bit of evidence over the months - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/search/12529976/?q=experts&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=89343

Including

Price Waterhouse publish a report today indicating the British economy will out perform leading E U nations for the next 33 years.

The Leave side could shout about their arguments being vindicated. Maybe they might choose a wiser (IMO) course and say something to the effect, "This is why we don't trust experts".

That's a direct reference to Gove's comment, no?

 

[1966efc]

Fair bit of evidence over the months - https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/search/12529976/?q=experts&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=89343

Including



That's a direct reference to Gove's comment, no?

Not really, no. It's more a reference to making assumptions about assumptions. The original 'thing' seemed to get lost quite rapidly in its exegesis. To the point where assumption became 'fact'.

Gove may believe he is the repository of all truth and others may believe his followers are legion. Damn sure I don't know those things and pretty clear that noone else does.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not really, no. It's more a reference to making assumptions about assumptions. The original 'thing' seemed to get lost quite rapidly in its exegesis. To the point where assumption became 'fact'.

Gove may believe he is the repository of all truth and others may believe his followers are legion. Damn sure I don't know those things and pretty clear that noone else does.

I'm not sure anyone would go as far as to suggest Gove is some mastermind, but we are living in a worryingly 'post-truth' world, that much seems hard to dispute. From memory, Gove was one of the first to pour scorn on the voice of traditional experts, which has encouraged many to seek alternative sources of information, which usually support the position of people like Gove.

It's a largely academic exercise akin to asking whether Trump would have happened without Brexit, or whether they're both symptoms of a wider issue, and whilst Gove has had little apparent input into the May administration, it's churlish to overlook his role in Brexit and that general Zeitgeist.

 

[1966efc]

I'm not sure anyone would go as far as to suggest Gove is some mastermind, but we are living in a worryingly 'post-truth' world, that much seems hard to dispute. From memory, Gove was one of the first to pour scorn on the voice of traditional experts, which has encouraged many to seek alternative sources of information, which usually support the position of people like Gove.

It's a largely academic exercise akin to asking whether Trump would have happened without Brexit, or whether they're both symptoms of a wider issue, and whilst Gove has had little apparent input into the Gove administration, it's churlish to overlook his role in Brexit and that general Zeitgeist.

I wonder what the relative roles of Johnson or Gove were in forming a view that the public could swallow. As a journalist, Gove appalled me. As a politician, his views on a range of issues do not attract me - though I think his efforts to reform the Justice system were admirable.

As a leading Leave campaigner, I'd put him in the same basket of truth benders as a number of others on both sides. His comment on experts wasn't that short of reality but he made the mistake of not being more precise ... but being precise would have limited its value as a vote winning sound bite, I guess.

Unlike an oncologist, mechanic, baker or battle hardened admiral, until the deal is agreed, (to me) there can be no experts only informed commentators.

 

[1966efc]

I wonder what the relative roles of Johnson or Gove were in forming a view that the public could swallow. As a journalist, Gove appalled me. As a politician, his views on a range of issues do not attract me - though I think his efforts to reform the Justice system were admirable.

As a leading Leave campaigner, I'd put him in the same basket of truth benders as a number of others on both sides. His comment on experts wasn't that short of reality but he made the mistake of not being more precise ... but being precise would have limited its value as a vote winning sound bite, I guess.

Unlike an oncologist, mechanic, baker or battle hardened admiral, until the deal is agreed, (to me) there can be no experts only informed commentators.

Alethiology. Can't live with it, might not be able to live without it.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Unfortunately, it appears that some (lots) did.
The problem with the assumption of him being disagreeable and that nobody will listen to him, is that there are people who do!

I think you and other's give Gove far more credit then he deserves. I think many people voted based on what Fararge said, I think lots of people voted based on what Boris Johnson said, I think lots of people voted based on what Osborne and his cronies in project fear said, I think loads of people voted because they remember old arguments from the original referendum and I think loads of people voted without taking all of the above into consideration and voted based on their own findings. I certainly believe that next to nobody watched Michael Gove and said "oh I'm convinced, I must vote leave". I truly doubt anyone (maybe a tiny number did) cast they're vote leave because of him. He's a fraud who has ridden of the coattails of better politicians as I said before.

 

[1966efc]

I think you and other's give Gove far more credit then he deserves. I think many people voted based on what Fararge said, I think lots of people voted based on what Boris Johnson said, I think lots of people voted based on what Osborne and his cronies in project fear said, I think loads of people voted because they remember old arguments from the original referendum and I think loads of people voted without taking all of the above into consideration and voted based on their own findings. I certainly believe that next to nobody watched Michael Gove and said "oh I'm convinced, I must vote leave". I truly doubt anyone (maybe a tiny number did) cast they're vote leave because of him. He's a fraud who has ridden of the coattails of better politicians as I said before.

Reminds me of a couple of posters who were convinced I was a flag wagging Little Englander.

A curious thing to believe of a de Valera fanboy.

 

[Clint Planet]

But, the electorate have voted so I'm not interested in moaning about the result ( either the vote or the effect ). All I'm interested in is getting on with dealing with the fallout, and that applies in how effects me personally and our business and, a little less so, how it effects the country.

There will be people all over the UK in similar positions to me who will be quietly getting on with stuff to try and limit the effect of the Leave vote.

Jumping up and down saying "It's not fair" ( I exaggerate, but the point still stands ) might make people feel better, but will make no difference.

Well, I'm still angry about all the lies and racism - people were conned as far as I'm concerned and I will continue to moan and complain as much as I want because it still may make some sort of difference.

Truth is, I don't really like this country that much anymore - I'm seriously looking to move abroad.

 

[Clint Planet]

I think you and other's give Gove far more credit then he deserves.

I watched Gove in that televised debate and his relentless, shameless ending of every comment he made with "...and that's why we should take back control and vote Leave on the 23rd" was chillingly effective.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I watched Gove in that televised debate and his relentless, shameless ending of every comment he made with "...and that's why we should take back control and vote Leave on the 23rd" was chillingly effective.

Again though I don't believe that many of the 17.5million leave voters cast their vote based on anything Gove said. All the leave campaigners had similar sound bites, much like all the remainers had them. I don't believe Gove or his feeble sound bite had any real effect. It certainly didn't on me or any other leave voter I've encountered. On the contrary most people thought him an irrelevance during the campaign.

 

[Clint Planet]

Listen, I'm a teacher - I despise the slippery little get. All I'm saying is I will never write off someone so pathologically shameless as Gove. I truly hope you are proved correct, though!