Armel
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I really dislike fallacies. Argumentum ad antiquitatem. An excuse that serves many times when no logical explanation is given. The answer is no.
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I really dislike fallacies. Argumentum ad antiquitatem. An excuse that serves many times when no logical explanation is given. The answer is no.
The leaving process is going rather well imo
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
No Sean, what I do believe is that greater age gives one a far broader perspective on life. As I said in my previous post, the 'me' of my early 20s had nowhere near the breadth of knowledge and experience of the world (social & political) and all the surrounding issues as I do now. That's why I said that was probably a factor in how the breakdown of voting went last June. Those older in the tooth like me remember the 1970s, when we voted to join a 'Common Market' - a trading alliance. What it has evolved into since then, the EU, has, I believe, made many of us take stock and say, in so many words, 'This is not what we wanted; this is not what we agreed to sign up to'. And what is in place now is a million miles away from what we entered into all those decades ago. That, for starters, would have coloured the view of a great many who voted Leave, I believe. Let me give you another example. I belong to a local aviation group that has guest speakers every month. Some months ago we had a high ranking officer from RAF Marham giving the talk for the evening. One of the questions he fielded at the end of the talk was a really barbed one for him. 'Are we moving towards a European Army, where military decisions will be taken by bureaucrats in Brussels?' Now this matter had been mooted quite some time previously, pre-Referendum. His answer was guarded, as I expected as he had obviously signed the Official Secrets Act, but given what was already 'out there' he basically said 'Yes, read between the lines...'. Again, to my generation, and probably one or two generations immediately behind mine, this kind of thing is not what we originally entered into. I believe more recently more noises have been coming from the EU about a more 'integrated' army from European nations.
On a more general basis, I have not liked the threats that have come forth from Brussels from time to time regarding the future, the negotiations, etc.. That is not the professional way to go about things. Everything now should be taken forward on a 'Commercial-In Confidence' basis (to use an industry term), notwithstanding what may be in the White Paper, which is only ever going to be a skeletal framework anyway.
I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is intended, Sean, as a useful discussion which shows my views, and I hope yours. It's a fascinating period we are going through, and it will go down in history as one of the most eventful matters in the history of the UK. But what do I know of history...
Seanjd
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I absolutely see your point of view, and I think that's one of the best presented of your posts. I was interested in your views as to whether you think somebody who has lived longer than somebody else is better equiped to vote than a youngster.
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
That's difficult to answer, Sean. You see, as you know, when you are young, you think you have all the answers, that if the world would only listen to all your young generation, it would be a better place. My teenage years were the 1960s, a decade of incredible change when one considers where it was socially and culturally in 1960, and where it ended up at the end of 1969. It was our time, we had all the answers. Well, in retrospect, it was a hell of a time, granted, but we didn't have all the answers, we just careered along, not so much in the fast lane, but down the centre of the dual carriageway, so to speak! But it was an incredible time of change, nevertheless.
'Better equipped' is a difficult thing to quantify. From the age of 18 I was qualified to vote, and I have always voted Labour. That, I believed, was my roots, coming from Liverpool 4, and was the preferred course to take. No surprise then, that I was a TU rep both at office and Merseyside level for a number of years. All that colours one's view of life, but I don't believe/didn't believe those older than me were more qualified to 'vote', as I saw that, and still do, as a personal choice. But many of the men I met when I started work in 1969 had a far greater depth to life than I had at that time - many had fought in the Desert, and from D-Day onwards right through to Germany and come out the other side and picked up the threads of their life. No way could I compete with them on a life experience basis.
I hope I have explained myself a little bit more, but I fear I have not really answered your question...
In the 1975 United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum 67.23% voted to remain. I am planning to spend the next 42 years respecting democracy and expressing my view that the 51.89 % who voted to leave in the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum included many who had been misled, and many who were just plain wrong. We have to make it work, but the Prime Minister has no mandate for the "hard Brexit" she is careering towards.
Old Blue 2
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Sorry, I won't be around in 42 years time to see the results of the next Referendum.
'Hard Brexit' is just a media/political/scheiß stirring term. Hard Brexit, soft Brexit, intermediate Brexit, post-lunch/early evening Brexit - all a complete load of tosh. What it all boils down to is a set of negotiations as to how the way forward will be shaped across a whole host of matters between the UK & the EU. Nothing more complicated than that.
1966efc
Player Valuation: £20m
Price Waterhouse publish a report today indicating the British economy will out perform leading E U nations for the next 33 years.
The Leave side could shout about their arguments being vindicated. Maybe they might choose a wiser (IMO) course and say something to the effect, "This is why we don't trust experts".
The Leave side could shout about their arguments being vindicated. Maybe they might choose a wiser (IMO) course and say something to the effect, "This is why we don't trust experts".
Who are they, mystic meg? Please.
does look a bit far fetched , how can they know what events across the world will happen within this timeline?
Exactly, it's a PR thing rather than anything meaningful. Surprised that someone like PwC have put their name to it to be honest as it's normally the preserve of those who have to plumb the depths for coverage.
So when some leave campaigners encouraged people to vote for the Norway model, it was just bullscheiß? Hard Brexit is not just a media term. It means throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which sadly looks like where we are going.
PS, I will have to get to 99 to do the whole 42 years, but I hope to see Everton at least in Europe by then....
1966efc
Player Valuation: £20m
Precisely.
Peaople who treat economics as a science which can predict events a decade or more in advance are the modern day alchemists. Ridiculous.
The Cowboy
Player Valuation: £60m
Deloitte produce a Brexit report that got them into hot water, and as I recall, barred from providing services to the govt for some time.
PwC produce a report that saying the UK is bloomin' marvellous and everything is positively tickedy-boo.
Coincidence? You don't think they might be fluttering their eyelashes somewhat?
Aye, fair point. The moratorium for Deloitte was six months btw.
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