Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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Tubey said:
You just said political campaigns have no political clout whatsoever. You can surely see the inherent stupidity of that statement?

Also, why are you constantly so aggressive? This is the reason why political threads were banned - just make your point reasonably, is it that hard to do?
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Tubey,
As I posted previously, the two campaigns were just that - campaigns. They did not have any legal, law-making, function at all. It was a cross-party, non-law-making scenario.

I'm not aggressive. That claim seems to be the refuge of those who will challenge me strongly, and do not like a strong reply in return. I state things simply and directly. If people do not like direct replies in response to their direct points to me, then that is not my problem. I'll take anything that comes my way and respond.

You may not agree with this (and I'm sure you won't! :)), but I have followed the simple legal tenet of 'He who asserts must prove' in an area of work I have carried out for decades, and I bring it to these kind of discussions. Put that simple tenet to the matter of whether the two campaigns had any legal clout. To say they did, has no legs, as legal clout rests with the Judiciary (as we have seen in recent times) and Parliamentary process. Both sides can spout utter guff (and I believe they did!), but there was not an ounce of binding legality in what either side said. This last sentence might bring the challenge of someone saying the referendum was 'binary', but the previous and present PM have stated they will abide by the decision of the UK in that referendum, and thta is what has happened.

And finally, political threads were under threat because some members made threats or insulting remarks to others. It has nothing to do with what you have levelled at me at all.
 
Old Blue 2 said:
I'm not projesting anything onto the rest of the population - you are the one doing so. Go back and read your posts..
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You said that the media and campaign had no sway on the populous who voted for Brexit, and then justified that comment by saying you made your own mind up - as it was entrenched already, as you've just conceded. To suggest the media campaigns had no effect on the outcome is completely nonsense, and flies in the face of the research carried out during and post the referendum, as you don't represent the swing vote, you were always going to vote the way you did. The majority formed their opinions during the campaign, with many only deciding on the day, as the post referendum research has shown.

Old Blue 2 said:
My style is direct and to the point. If you don't like that, while you are the same with your posts, then you are hypocritical. And if you don't like that, go back and read your posts...
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Your 'style' is patronising and dismissive, I stand by that comment, and I don't agree that my posts in response mirror your behaviour.
Old Blue 2 said:
4. Do you actually know what 'hyperbole' means...?..
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See above and yes.
Old Blue 2 said:
Facts and rational logic are what's missing from your posts. Rather you post a quote from an individual and hold that up as fact. It is a fact that he said it, it is not a fact that all he said is true - there is a difference. WHat you claim is not rational. It is not a logical premise. It carries no weight whatsoever to claim that one man speaks for all. Go back and read your posts...
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It's not a logical nor factual premise that the Director of the Leave campaign himself, the man who was responsible for the promoting of the NHS claim, said himself that it was factually incorrect and that based on their own research and the closeness of the result, that it swung the result?
It's not one man speaking for all either, it's one man using the data they collected pre and post the claim being pushed to the fore sharing the results of that research.

Amusing indeed.............
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
You said that the media and campaign had no sway on the populous who voted for Brexit, and then justified that comment by saying you made your own mind up - as it was entrenched already, as you've just conceded. To suggest the media campaigns had no effect on the outcome is completely nonsense, and flies in the face of the research carried out during and post the referendum, as you don't represent the swing vote, you were always going to vote the way you did. The majority formed their opinions during the campaign, with many only deciding on the day, as the post referendum research has shown.



Your 'style' is patronising and dismissive, I stand by that comment, and I don't agree that my posts in response mirror your behaviour.


See above and yes.


It's not a logical nor factual premise that the Director of the Leave campaign himself, the man who was responsible for the promoting of the NHS claim, said himself that it was factually incorrect and that based on their own research and the closeness of the result, that it swung the result?
It's not one man speaking for all either, it's one man using the data they collected pre and post the claim being pushed to the fore sharing the results of that research.

Amusing indeed.............
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Also amusing the lies that Osborne , and experts spouted, and cleared off when they lost the vote, even the PM on resignation saying he was standing down , but would stay on to help the new leader urm a bit of o porky there hey ho!!
Never mind they had not prepared to lose, cocky Etonians at their worst!
 
Joey66 said:
Also amusing the lies that Osborne , and experts spouted, and cleared off when they lost the vote, even the PM on resignation saying he was standing down , but would stay on to help the new leader urm a bit of o porky there hey ho!!
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There's a distinct difference between telling the public something that you know is factually incorrect, and therefore a lie, and getting a prediction wrong. The NHS lie was not a matter of subjective opinion it was definitively incorrect and therefore factually impossible for anyone to deliver.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
There's a distinct difference between telling the public something that you know is factually incorrect, and therefore a lie, and getting a prediction wrong. The NHS lie was not a matter of subjective opinion it was definitively incorrect and therefore factually impossible for anyone to deliver.
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Really then explain away the £9 million booklet the Remain campaign sent out to every household more codemming on cost than a lie on a bus to a brichure full of lies imo!
In which the leader of UKIP pointed out was incorrect at that time no one ever made their mind up siguarly to vote out on that advert you are clutching straws , my booklet went on the back of the log fire a total propaganda waste of money as they lost brochure by the government headed by DC, and Gideon!
 
Joey66 said:
Really then explain away the £9 million booklet the Remain campaign sent out to every household more codemming on cost than a lie on a bus to a brichure full of lies imo!
In which the leader of UKIP pointed out was incorrect at that time no one ever made their mind up siguarly to vote out on that advert you are clutching straws , my booklet went on the back of the log fire a total propaganda waste of money as they lost brochure by the government headed by DC, and Gideon!
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Don't like to stoke the fire Joey, but what "lies" do you say were in the Remain brochure (and I think the leave campaigns spent a bob or two - it is what happens at voting time of course)? This is a genuine enquiry to try to finesse the debate. I keep hearing it said there were lies, but wonder what the details are.
I am yet to be persuaded we will have more money from leaving. I don't think the fall of Sterling has made us richer. Osbourne was always a small state Conservative, and may have leapt at any opportunity to wield the knife, had he not been sacked by TM. But Austerity has not suddenly been cancelled, and the NHS is in a state. What else was wrong though?
It seems to me that for many leaving and "taking control" was an emotional thing, and perhaps they thought it worth the price. But for a significant number in the middle - and it was a very small majority (unlike 1975) - it is hard to believe that repeated lies like "£350m for the NHS" on the side of a bus did not help persuade. Remember Boris Johnson (almost as despicable a self-serving toerag as Gove) had written articles to stay and to leave the moment before he came off the fence.
 
Read through this lot - the latest saying not exactly factual umph-
JammyP said:
Don't like to stoke the fire Joey, but what "lies" do you say were in the Remain brochure (and I think the leave campaigns spent a bob or two - it is what happens at voting time of course)? This is a genuine enquiry to try to finesse the debate. I keep hearing it said there were lies, but wonder what the details are.
I am yet to be persuaded we will have more money from leaving. I don't think the fall of Sterling has made us richer. Osbourne was always a small state Conservative, and may have leapt at any opportunity to wield the knife, had he not been sacked by TM. But Austerity has not suddenly been cancelled, and the NHS is in a state. What else was wrong though?
It seems to me that for many leaving and "taking control" was an emotional thing, and perhaps they thought it worth the price. But for a significant number in the middle - and it was a very small majority (unlike 1975) - it is hard to believe that repeated lies like "£350m for the NHS" on the side of a bus did not help persuade. Remember Boris Johnson (almost as despicable a self-serving toerag as Gove) had written articles to stay and to leave the moment before he came off the fence.
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Read this not exactly factual was it umph!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...u-leaflet-what-it-says-and-is-it-fact-or-fic/
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I must be reading this wrong, as the only one of those even the pro-leave Telegraph really disputed was the last one, and given that 44% of our exports go to the EU, it's likely to be a sizeable number, whatever it is.
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Disputed them all bruce apart from that leaflet what happened to the housing price slump?
If we voted Brexit?
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I must be reading this wrong, as the only one of those even the pro-leave Telegraph really disputed was the last one, and given that 44% of our exports go to the EU, it's likely to be a sizeable number, whatever it is.
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44 percent - and forecast to fall before Brexit is it worth a 9 billion net contribution Bruce no and that's why Out won!
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I suspect you'll be rather upset at the settlement payment we make when we leave. That's estimated to range from £25-75bn to settle up all of the existing commitments we have with the EU.
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No we won't more Remain lies Bruce watched the DP today no way would the pensions cost that nor should we be liable for it!
Just face it Bruce we are leaving the titanic before it sinks we may pay for certain advantages in science etc they rely on our armed forces too another bargaining chip for us let the negotiations begin after next week or so fighting the old arguments cost people their jobs , but oh they have gained others two etonians not Everton supporters either!
 
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