Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

What a terrible post from you, Bruce.

Let me give you an analogy. I've mentioned this once before on here, but it warrants repetition in the light of the above.

In the 1970s Bill Shankly had a weekly radio programme interviewing sporting personalities. Most times, it turned into him talking at length about varius subjects, but was fascinating nonetheless. On one occasion he had George Best on his programme, when Best was in one of those troughs in his career. At one point, Shankly said, in so many words: 'On the pitch you can't hide. You can't bluff the supporters. You may be at the peak of your career, and have reached the heights, but you can't fool the supporters. You know why? A lot of those supporters have been watching football for years/decades ever before you were born. They know more about the game than you will ever know. You can't con or fool them. They know the game inside out. You can't hide. They see everything you do on the pitch.' And he was right, and that is applicable today as it was then, and every week in-between.

So your Janet and Steve analogy is rubbish, Bruce. One doesn't have to be a TV engineer to know how to switch the TV on and operate it. One doesn't have to be sooper-dooper IT qualified person to switch on a PC and know your way around the internet. Yours is therefore a fallacious and flawed point. I would not even call it reasoning, because it is not. So for you to produce such denigration in your second paragraph is plain wrong. One doesn't have to be Messi or Ronaldo to know about football, comprehensively...

If one were to follow your point slavishly, one would indeed believe pre-23rd June last year that the financial scenario would turn to merde and the whole economic basis of the country was going down the pan if the vote was to leave, according to the 'so-called experts'. In fact those 'experts' have made an utter balls of several things in recent years to such an extent that one can legitimately wonder whether they actually 'know the square root of bugger all' (as you succinctly put it!) about their chosen specialist profession. Finger-in-the-wind merchants, that's all they are.

No one knows jack.

A lot of folk voted with their head and heart. Here, and in the US.

The political and intellectual "elite" (sic), have been sussed.

"Dont tell us what to think, do what we tell you to do" is the message from millions of normal, annoyed people. One may agree or disagree with the outcomes politically, but rightly or wrongly, this last year has been seismic.

 

[Old Blue 2]

No one knows jack.

A lot of folk voted with their head and heart. Here, and in the US.

The political and intellectual "elite" (sic), have been sussed.

"Dont tell us what to think, do what we tell you to do" is the message from millions of normal, annoyed people. One may agree or disagree with the outcomes politically, but rightly or wrongly, this last year has been seismic.

It has, roydo, and at present we just go about our daily business. Future generations will no doubt pore over endlessly the debates and the decisions of last year and will no doubt cast a rainbow of judgements as to why these events happened. History in the making, and massive history at that!

 

[roydo]

It has, roydo, and at present we just go about our daily business. Future generations will no doubt pore over endlessly the debates and the decisions of last year and will no doubt cast a rainbow of judgements as to why these events happened. History in the making, and massive history at that!

Yep. I voted, reluctantly to stay in the EU, and would never have voted for Trump.

But its done. We deal with it.

The A Level history courses in about 40 years will be interesting.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What a terrible post from you, Bruce.

Let me give you an analogy. I've mentioned this once before on here, but it warrants repetition in the light of the above.

In the 1970s Bill Shankly had a weekly radio programme interviewing sporting personalities. Most times, it turned into him talking at length about varius subjects, but was fascinating nonetheless. On one occasion he had George Best on his programme, when Best was in one of those troughs in his career. At one point, Shankly said, in so many words: 'On the pitch you can't hide. You can't bluff the supporters. You may be at the peak of your career, and have reached the heights, but you can't fool the supporters. You know why? A lot of those supporters have been watching football for years/decades ever before you were born. They know more about the game than you will ever know. You can't con or fool them. They know the game inside out. You can't hide. They see everything you do on the pitch.' And he was right, and that is applicable today as it was then, and every week in-between.

So your Janet and Steve analogy is rubbish, Bruce. One doesn't have to be a TV engineer to know how to switch the TV on and operate it. One doesn't have to be sooper-dooper IT qualified person to switch on a PC and know your way around the internet. Yours is therefore a fallacious and flawed point. I would not even call it reasoning, because it is not. So for you to produce such denigration in your second paragraph is plain wrong. One doesn't have to be Messi or Ronaldo to know about football, comprehensively...

If one were to follow your point slavishly, one would indeed believe pre-23rd June last year that the financial scenario would turn to merde and the whole economic basis of the country was going down the pan if the vote was to leave, according to the 'so-called experts'. In fact those 'experts' have made an utter balls of several things in recent years to such an extent that one can legitimately wonder whether they actually 'know the square root of bugger all' (as you succinctly put it!) about their chosen specialist profession. Finger-in-the-wind merchants, that's all they are.

http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice...rveyDetail/instruments/STANDARD/surveyKy/2099

1. The EU currently consists of 28 Member States,
2. The members of the European Parliament are directly elected by the citizens of each Member State,
3. Switzerland is a Member State of the EU.

They're the questions asked. The kind of stuff they teach kids in GCSE level citizenship classes. In Britain, 23% were able to answer all three of them correctly. So your humble wisdom of the masses is I'm afraid utter bunkem.

 

[roydo]

http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice...rveyDetail/instruments/STANDARD/surveyKy/2099

1. The EU currently consists of 28 Member States,
2. The members of the European Parliament are directly elected by the citizens of each Member State,
3. Switzerland is a Member State of the EU.

They're the questions asked. The kind of stuff they teach kids in GCSE level citizenship classes. In Britain, 23% were able to answer all three of them correctly. So your humble wisdom of the masses is I'm afraid utter bunkem.

Yeah, but being devils advocate, you dont need to be schooled in academic analysis to have a meaningful opinion about how you view the world you live in.

And if it could be improved more to your liking.

Cos thats basically whats happened here, in the US, and probably across swathes of the EU.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah, but being devils advocate, you dont need to be schooled in academic analysis to have a meaningful opinion about how you view the world you live in.

And if it could be improved more to your liking.

Cos thats basically whats happened here, in the US, and probably across swathes of the EU.

You can't accurately and ably critique something you have no understanding of. This wasn't a referendum asking people whether they wanted a better life, it was whether they wanted to leave the EU, and given that people barely know the simplest things about the EU, how can they possibly judge its merits?

 

[roydo]

You can't accurately and ably critique something you have no understanding of. This wasn't a referendum asking people whether they wanted a better life, it was whether they wanted to leave the EU, and given that people barely know the simplest things about the EU, how can they possibly judge its merits?

Gut feeling?

Nattering to folk? Personal experiences?

 

[roydo]

you dont need to be schooled in academic analysis to have a meaningful opinion

And that.

Like I said mate. Devils advocate.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Gut feeling?

Nattering to folk? Personal experiences?

But again though, if that was effective, you'd have knowledge of the basic fundamentals that you're being asked to consider, but that isn't the case. I mean it's been shown in various studies that people massively over-estimate the number of migrants, and especially Muslim migrants, living in the country. Should that gut instinct be trusted? Or among those who believe the MMR vaccine causes autism?

 

[peteblue]

But again though, if that was effective, you'd have knowledge of the basic fundamentals that you're being asked to consider, but that isn't the case. I mean it's been shown in various studies that people massively over-estimate the number of migrants, and especially Muslim migrants, living in the country. Should that gut instinct be trusted? Or among those who believe the MMR vaccine causes autism?

I didn't vote on gut instinct. I voted on a rational evaluation of what was better for my children and grandchildren. The EU will fall apart, its growth will continue to slow, even the current 'presidents' are looking for a way out, it will all end in tears......

 

[roydo]

Or among those who believe the MMR vaccine causes autism?

Low blow that mate.

We were told by academic, medically trained healthcare "experts", that it did. Or contributed.

That worked out sound.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I didn't vote on gut instinct. I voted on a rational evaluation of what was better for my children and grandchildren. The EU will fall apart, its growth will continue to slow, even the current 'presidents' are looking for a way out, it will all end in tears......

You may have done, but many did not.

Low blow that mate.

We were told by academic, medically trained healthcare "experts", that it did. Or contributed.

That worked out sound.

With respect though mate, that was not a scientific consensus, that was one fraudulent study that was then regurgitated by the media not only without due analysis, but they made the already fraudulent findings even more nefarious. It was never advocated by any medical expert other than the con artist that cooked up the initial paper.

We live in an age where government and indeed business are supposed to partake in evidence based decision making, not ignorance based decision making.

 

[Neveryourfault]

Yeah, but being devils advocate, you dont need to be schooled in academic analysis to have a meaningful opinion about how you view the world you live in.

And if it could be improved more to your liking.

Cos thats basically whats happened here, in the US, and probably across swathes of the EU.

I was always under the impression that Switzerland wasn't part of the Eu but has trading rights with the EU. And i dont think Jersey is part of the EU is it

 

[peteblue]

Yep. I voted, reluctantly to stay in the EU, and would never have voted for Trump.

But its done. We deal with it.

The A Level history courses in about 40 years will be interesting.

President Farage will be held up as the saviour of Europe........

 

[Old Blue 2]

http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice...rveyDetail/instruments/STANDARD/surveyKy/2099

1. The EU currently consists of 28 Member States,
2. The members of the European Parliament are directly elected by the citizens of each Member State,
3. Switzerland is a Member State of the EU.

They're the questions asked. The kind of stuff they teach kids in GCSE level citizenship classes. In Britain, 23% were able to answer all three of them correctly. So your humble wisdom of the masses is I'm afraid utter bunkem.

So you've got knowledge of the intelligence of every single person in the UK, eh?

Don't make me laugh, Bruce. You're at it again. Pulling some meaningless statistic to try to prove a point. You're simply wasting bandwidth...