Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Tubey]

As for this: "...I try and gain evidence from people that have studied the matter, whereas you seem happy not to..." Again, you are turning things around to suit your agenda. You pull studies to reinforce your already entrenched views. I challenge that, on the basis that studies cannot always be claimed to be 100%, nor 100% perfect. "...considerably better than nothing...". Sometimes, nothing is better than certain kind of 'studies'.

Going on the above, I'm not entirely convinced you know what a study is.

Because if I read you correctly, you don't place any value in experts looking into a given subject, simply because they can't be 100% accurate, and instead prefer, I dunno, "gut feeling" I guess, which is obviously going to be even less accurate.

You have a weird habit of writing very strange things that are demonstrably silly.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Dangerous game that Bruce picking who can and cannot vote on certain issues leaves it wide open to corruption , we will exclude a certain number of people to get are own way.
Not very libral of you that excluding people on grounds of education ect , as it would mostly affect the poorest people with a worse education.
As for prisoners i wouldnt let them vote , if they chose to live outside of societies laws , why should they have the right to vote on them.

Why is it dangerous? As I've said, these aren't isolated studies. They've been conducted on national and international issues and are cross party and cross issue (ie leave/remain). The fact is, a lot of people have very little clue about the things they've voting on. As I've said before, these aren't challenging questions. In one national study, for instance, it was who is your MP. These are really simple questions, yet if you are to assess whether or not someone is doing a good or bad job requires an incredibly high level of knowledge. Knowledge that goes way beyond knowing your MP or what the House of Lords does. If we fail at the basics, how can we successfully assess any candidate and their platform?

 

[Joey66]

And they'll come from the EU anyway.

But of course he doesn't know that, it's pointless even asking that question to someone yelling "no more immigration" I'm afraid.

It does not matter were immigration comes from it has to have a control element to it not a free for all ala now in the UK!

 

[Prevenger17]

You know I'm not going to let you go over such comments as above.

Tell me, Bruce, how do you know that many have not? Do you know how many did?

Let me answer that for you. You haven't a bloody clue, Bruce. You continue, week after week, to make groundless assertions just to further your own agenda. I can see right through it every time.

You see, as you well know, Bruce, I am too schooled in research and legal matters over the decades for bull to get past me.

'He who asserts must prove', matey, he who asserts must prove...

Big fan of Old Blue's demented posting style.

 

[Tubey]

Big fan of Old Blue's demented posting style.

I especially liked the 'groundless assertions' part whilst also lambasting him for using studies as evidence.

That's a special kind of demented that.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Going on the above, I'm not entirely convinced you know what a study is.

Because if I read you correctly, you don't place any value in experts looking into a given subject, simply because they can't be 100% accurate, and instead prefer, I dunno, "gut feeling" I guess, which is obviously going to be even less accurate.

You have a weird habit of writing very strange things that are demonstrably silly.

Do I not know what a study is...?

Wow, do you not have a clue...

 

[Joey66]

Why is it dangerous? As I've said, these aren't isolated studies. They've been conducted on national and international issues and are cross party and cross issue (ie leave/remain). The fact is, a lot of people have very little clue about the things they've voting on. As I've said before, these aren't challenging questions. In one national study, for instance, it was who is your MP. These are really simple questions, yet if you are to assess whether or not someone is doing a good or bad job requires an incredibly high level of knowledge. Knowledge that goes way beyond knowing your MP or what the House of Lords does. If we fail at the basics, how can we successfully assess any candidate and their platform?

Are we talking about our MPS who 90% of them fiddled their expenses Bruce - the ones who voted 6-1 in favour of exactly how the referendum paper was going to be set out ?
The ones in the £9 million booklet of remain propaganda on the referendum stated what ever the result of the UK people it would be seen through - if so what are ,you bleating on about?
OUT won !
If the house of Lords stand in the way it will be abolished!

 

[Prevenger17]

I especially liked the 'groundless assertions' part whilst also lambasting him for using studies as evidence.

That's a special kind of demented that.

I was literally in the middle of quoting an example of him doing that in his screed. I don't agree with it, but god damn it I respect it.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I especially liked the 'groundless assertions' part whilst also lambasting him for using studies as evidence.

That's a special kind of demented that.

Now, now, you should read posts and not just lay criticism.

And you know next to nothing about me.

And you are out of order saying I'm 'demented', as are other posters. I've never called you demented...

 

[Old Blue 2]

I was literally in the middle of quoting an example of him doing that in his screed. I don't agree with it, but god damn it I respect it.

Please do, Prev. I'm all for discussion. And if I have been proven FACTUALLY wrong I will admit to it (unlike some others who post in this thread...).

 

[peteblue]

Okay, answer me this. In what other sphere of life do we let completely untrained people contribute to important things? Even Red Cross volunteers have to show a basic aptitude for first aid etc. Why do we think it a bastion of virtue to let people who don't know how many states are in the EU decide on whether the EU is a good thing?
..........

I agree with you here Bruce, it should have been left to only those who had experienced life before we joined so that they properly knew both sides of the argument.......

 

[tsubaki]

Why is it dangerous? As I've said, these aren't isolated studies. They've been conducted on national and international issues and are cross party and cross issue (ie leave/remain). The fact is, a lot of people have very little clue about the things they've voting on. As I've said before, these aren't challenging questions. In one national study, for instance, it was who is your MP. These are really simple questions, yet if you are to assess whether or not someone is doing a good or bad job requires an incredibly high level of knowledge. Knowledge that goes way beyond knowing your MP or what the House of Lords does. If we fail at the basics, how can we successfully assess any candidate and their platform?

Think where that argument leads, Bruce. You are basically advocating Plato's Republic, except with the bunch of failures that came up with this referendum idea in charge rather than the philosophers.

 

[Prevenger17]

And if I have been proven FACTUALLY wrong I will admit to it

From the samples of your contribution in here, I don't think that's the case. But, as I said, I respect the hell out of it.

 

[Tubey]

Now, now, you should read posts and not just lay criticism.

And you know next to nothing about me.

And you are out of order saying I'm 'demented', as are other posters. I've never called you demented...

I didn't say you were demented mate; I said what you type is often demented.

You're probably a normal guy in real life until you get to a keyboard.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Think where that argument leads, Bruce. You are basically advocating Plato's Republic, except with the bunch of failures that came up with this referendum idea in charge rather than the philosophers.

Again though, I'm not advocating that people have a degree in philosophy, economics or whatever in order to vote, but equally, if people cannot name their MP, that's a pretty damning indictment of their ability to vote sensibly. The valueof each individual vote is so infinitesimally small, I would gladly sacrifice it if it meant we had good government.

To use an example, it's been shown numerous times that people tend to significantly over-estimate things like crime levels and the number of migrants/Muslims/AN Other out-group in the community, the amount given in overseas aid, benefits spending and so on. If 'the will of the people' is so sacrosanct, are we suggesting that government should abide by these misconceptions rather than the actual reality? Personally, I'd find that not only incredibly sad but incredibly damaging.