peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
More Europe, the answer is always more Europe.......
Current Affairs EU In or Out
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More Europe, the answer is always more Europe.......
1966efc
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Verhofstadt said exactly this very recently in an interview with the Beeb. He went on to assert that problems such as unemployment couldn't be left at the door of the E U unless nation states relinquished more power to the Commission.
It's a point of view, I suppose. "Leave it to us, you funny relics of history" however, isn't I think, an argument in tune with the times we live in.
Tony Blair putting his oar in today that should go down well?
Foot Long Hot Dog
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He'll get dogs abuse and probably death threats for having the temerity to suggest what he has done today.
knowing people these days its a cert, one arrogant man him though, wouldn't surprise me to see him start his own party at some point.
it was up last week among those that voted to 52% for getting on with brexit down to 38% or 36% stay in one survey I was reading .
Nick clegg though it was a good speech .
Seanjd
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Which survey was that?
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Good article in the Guardian.......
It doesn’t ring true: a blemished ex-prime minister mounts a campaign against the result of a referendum he never had the guts to call. He complains that the public never had the full facts on Brexit, that they voted “without knowledge of the true terms”. He declares a “mission” to make them repent the error of their ways.
Blair should get real. No electorate ever has the full facts. What of the elections he won? When did he set out the “true terms” of his various foreign wars? Every democratic election is a pig in a poke, an act of barely informed faith.
In truth, the Brexit referendum was one of the most exhaustively argued elections in recent times. There was a deal of mendacity, of wild promises and scaremongering. The “£350m for the NHS” was a lie, but so was Project Fear. The argument was endless, tedious, but conducted in public – not least by the BBC, to its credit – with an attempt to be fair.
Since the vote, there has been no strong evidence that those voting for Brexit regret doing so or would change their minds a second time. The remain lobby’s relentless insults to the Brexiters’ intelligence may make it feel better. But the electorate was asked a clear question, and answered that it wished to leave the EU. Period.
Of course, that is not the end of the consent issue. Voting to leave the EU is one thing – how is another. Theresa May has followed a clearly political strategy. She has opted for hard Brexit, not because she may think it the best outcome but to cover her extreme anti-EU flank at the start. She has read the public mood, nobbled the Labour opposition, and held her negotiating team steady against a flailing EU leadership. She knows there is trouble ahead, but for now she does not want a split party.
The gap between hard and soft Brexit will yawn ever wider. It is a reasonable guess that people want tighter border controls and less EU bureaucracy. They also want free trade and no impediment to their own business or ease of movement. They have a complex of wants which, in total, will prove undeliverable.
In other words, as usual in a democracy, they elect a government to hear their tune but fill in the notes. Were Blair to warn May not to assume that hard Brexit is the public’s wish, he would have a point, if a banal one. It may well be that the eventual deal is so messy and controversial that another vote, by referendum or general election, would be wise. But the last vote is done. Former prime ministers should not campaign against the people.
It doesn’t ring true: a blemished ex-prime minister mounts a campaign against the result of a referendum he never had the guts to call. He complains that the public never had the full facts on Brexit, that they voted “without knowledge of the true terms”. He declares a “mission” to make them repent the error of their ways.
Blair should get real. No electorate ever has the full facts. What of the elections he won? When did he set out the “true terms” of his various foreign wars? Every democratic election is a pig in a poke, an act of barely informed faith.
In truth, the Brexit referendum was one of the most exhaustively argued elections in recent times. There was a deal of mendacity, of wild promises and scaremongering. The “£350m for the NHS” was a lie, but so was Project Fear. The argument was endless, tedious, but conducted in public – not least by the BBC, to its credit – with an attempt to be fair.
Since the vote, there has been no strong evidence that those voting for Brexit regret doing so or would change their minds a second time. The remain lobby’s relentless insults to the Brexiters’ intelligence may make it feel better. But the electorate was asked a clear question, and answered that it wished to leave the EU. Period.
Of course, that is not the end of the consent issue. Voting to leave the EU is one thing – how is another. Theresa May has followed a clearly political strategy. She has opted for hard Brexit, not because she may think it the best outcome but to cover her extreme anti-EU flank at the start. She has read the public mood, nobbled the Labour opposition, and held her negotiating team steady against a flailing EU leadership. She knows there is trouble ahead, but for now she does not want a split party.
The gap between hard and soft Brexit will yawn ever wider. It is a reasonable guess that people want tighter border controls and less EU bureaucracy. They also want free trade and no impediment to their own business or ease of movement. They have a complex of wants which, in total, will prove undeliverable.
In other words, as usual in a democracy, they elect a government to hear their tune but fill in the notes. Were Blair to warn May not to assume that hard Brexit is the public’s wish, he would have a point, if a banal one. It may well be that the eventual deal is so messy and controversial that another vote, by referendum or general election, would be wise. But the last vote is done. Former prime ministers should not campaign against the people.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
The Whatsinitforme Party......
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Well if those educated, well informed and intelligent remainers can't see that it's always best to do the opposite of the liar of a man who would have had us in the €URO, then there is no hope for them..........
in one of the papers the other week sorry in work so cant find it as load of sites blocked,google it seanjd something should come up.
Old Blue 2
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I mentioned some way back in this thread about an EU army contrlled by the EU after hearing from a top bod at one of the local RAF bases, and certain people poured scorn on it.
I have to say, some people (in all innocence, no doubt) cannot see where the monolith that is the EU is/has been heading. Little by little the veil is being lifted...
Seanjd
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Regardless of who is figure heading, I think it's important that an organisation exists to inform people of the negatives of different types of Brexit. I think Blair is right to say people were misinformed and it is their right to change their minds about how Brexit is carried out as terms become clear.
@peteblue, the article you posted claims that May is perusing a 'political' Brexit by which she will pass terms with her party in mind, not the country. This is what is happening, and this is why I think there should be a strong opposition to how Brexit is carried through.
@peteblue, the article you posted claims that May is perusing a 'political' Brexit by which she will pass terms with her party in mind, not the country. This is what is happening, and this is why I think there should be a strong opposition to how Brexit is carried through.
Seanjd
Player Valuation: £30m
Is there actually any evidence for this EU army which will take powers away from states? I can't find anything which isn't scaremongering from Breitbart and the Express.
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