Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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Bruce Wayne said:
Again though, I'm not advocating that people have a degree in philosophy, economics or whatever in order to vote, but equally, if people cannot name their MP, that's a pretty damning indictment of their ability to vote sensibly. The valueof each individual vote is so infinitesimally small, I would gladly sacrifice it if it meant we had good government.

To use an example, it's been shown numerous times that people tend to significantly over-estimate things like crime levels and the number of migrants/Muslims/AN Other out-group in the community, the amount given in overseas aid, benefits spending and so on. If 'the will of the people' is so sacrosanct, are we suggesting that government should abide by these misconceptions rather than the actual reality? Personally, I'd find that not only incredibly sad but incredibly damaging.
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Why do people significantly over-estimate crime levels and the number of migrants / Muslims, though? Could it perhaps be that that is what they are repeatedly told by elements of the press and wider media, and usually at the behest of the government of the day?

Surely dealing with that lot is vastly preferable to removing the vote from everyone you deem not worthy of it, especially when the end result would be to leave the people responsible for all the ignorance in charge?
 
tsubaki said:
Why do people significantly over-estimate crime levels and the number of migrants / Muslims, though? Could it perhaps be that that is what they are repeatedly told by elements of the press and wider media, and usually at the behest of the government of the day?

Surely dealing with that lot is vastly preferable to removing the vote from everyone you deem not worthy of it, especially when the end result would be to leave the people responsible for all the ignorance in charge?
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Think of it another way. When your vote is one of 30 million or so, the minuscule impact your vote has on anything renders it totally irrational to go to the effort to ensure you're as informed as possible. As uses of your time go, it's down near the bottom.

If nothing else, if people were required to show a rudimentary level of knowledge before being allowed to vote, it would invoke a level of effort that it's unfair to expect under our current system.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Think of it another way. When your vote is one of 30 million or so, the minuscule impact your vote has on anything renders it totally irrational to go to the effort to ensure you're as informed as possible. As uses of your time go, it's down near the bottom.

If nothing else, if people were required to show a rudimentary level of knowledge before being allowed to vote, it would invoke a level of effort that it's unfair to expect under our current system.
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Every single vote is important because it is an expression of freedom of thought and an acceptance by all of the other citizens as a valid opinion. Women fought for a vote, the common man fought for a vote, we had a civil war to do away with only the rich and powerful having their voices heard.........
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Think of it another way. When your vote is one of 30 million or so, the minuscule impact your vote has on anything renders it totally irrational to go to the effort to ensure you're as informed as possible. As uses of your time go, it's down near the bottom.

If nothing else, if people were required to show a rudimentary level of knowledge before being allowed to vote, it would invoke a level of effort that it's unfair to expect under our current system.
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So what you are saying is that people who are deliberately lied to, misled and who have come to think that their votes count as nothing because of the lack of any real choice politically should have their votes taken off them, in order that the people who lied to them, misled them and caused the crisis in politics should remain in office?
 
tsubaki said:
So what you are saying is that people who are deliberately lied to, misled and who have come to think that their votes count as nothing because of the lack of any real choice politically should have their votes taken off them, in order that the people who lied to them, misled them and caused the crisis in politics should remain in office?
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Not at all. The truth is out there, but I suspect it inevitably requires effort to dig out. I wholeheartedly agree that a whole lot more should be done to ensure campaigns are conducted (and reported upon) truthfully, without a shadow of doubt, but equally the electorate should place equal weight on the responsibility part of voting as much as the rights part of it.

Democracy works when there is an informed electorate casting their vote. If it's populated by ignorance, or alternative facts if you like, then it becomes a shambles, and that's kinda where we are at the moment, with a whole bunch of largely uninformed people voting on things they don't understand (or worse, think they do, but don't).
 
I doubt there would be this level of burning concern for democracy had Remain won the vote - even though the same campaigns with their various obfuscations had taken place.

However, given that the eyes of G O T are fixed on achieving a more informed electorate, a compulsory exam at 16 and 18 in Politics and Governance shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to implement.
 
1966efc said:
I doubt there would be this level of burning concern for democracy had Remain won the vote - even though the same campaigns with their various obfuscations had taken place.

However, given that the eyes of G O T are fixed on achieving a more informed electorate, a compulsory exam at 16 and 18 in Politics and Governance shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to implement.
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all this was debated and the 16-17 year olds was voted down - its like losing and wanting the game replayed, 6-1 the MPs were agreeable and voted for the style of referendum!
 
Hahahaha I see that France has begun legal proceedings against the EU because they voted for formally adopting its new budget in Brussels instead of Strasbourg. You really couldn't make this up. It is a farce, a waste of money, time and effort in the extreme. With all the issues the EU has to deal with, this really isn't one of them.......
 
So I see that the EU parliament has voted for an EU Finace minister, EU army resources removed from nation states and put under control of a central body, EU wide taxation etc etc,.....everything that we said would happen that was laughed at by remainers seems to be coming to fruition......
 
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