Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Tubey]

http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-do-we-actually-care-about-parliament-10755322

A rare good article from Boulton.

In this month's vote, MPs effectively accepted Mr Davis's argument. Even though they had legislated that the referendum should be non-binding and merely consultative, they bowed to "the will of the people".

An overwhelming majority of MPs backed Remain during the campaign, but now they overruled themselves and 76% voted for the process of leaving.

There was much debate among MPs over the distinction drawn by Edmund Burke whether they should be delegates, robotically voting according to the will of their voters - or representatives, exercising their personal judgement in the interests of their constituents.

What this week's debate shows is that MPs are neither - they don't matter at all when it comes to law making.

 

[Joey66]

Elinor Ostrom begs to differ. As it is, we spend over £500m per year on border security, which of course doesn't include the huge time cost people endure suffering through it whenever they travel anywhere. That's money that most EU countries don't spend because they don't police their borders. Are we saying that they're less safe as a result? Have their services collapsed?



Yet our public services seem to cope perfectly well with 36 million temporary visitors each year, and around 700,000 new births each year. Our services have not, and will not crumble, and I've answered what must be a dozen times, the failure of the government to localise spending to cope with any reasonable size population movement, regardless of where that movement originates from.

Visitors do not need services they stay in paid hotels

 

[Joey66]

Fee paying students account for 213,000 of the total of 636,000 total immigrants

Non EU migrants were 284,000 of that total, which is more than that from the EU.

EU immigrants made a net contribution to the economy

Services should be therefore funded by Govt from that net contribution

What tangible effect has any of this supposed disaster had on your existence?

Not me personally but can you tell me for a fact what is wrong in controlled immigration?
most EU workers take up low paid jobs in agriculture, hotel work care work yes we need them, but contribute very little to our tax system by the time you take out Housing Benefit - tax credits - child tax credit which they are entitled too your figures are misleading - so if we need immigration again tell me what's wrong in counting them in and counting them out??????????
when we leave the EU what's wrong with a work visa scheme - A major Labour policy is to stop jobs being advertised directly abroad, and to stop gang masters fetching them in and taking an exorbitant rent to live in squalor barns or six to a room etc - you get me wrong if we need immigration for work - it needs controlling to stop such practices!
The NI numbers are often well higher than the immigration figures!
These practices would be stopped by controlling immigration!, and using work visas!

 

[Old Blue 2]

The NI numbers are often well higher than the immigration figures!

If the general public knew the whole truth about NI numbers...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not me personally but can you tell me for a fact what is wrong in controlled immigration?
most EU workers take up low paid jobs in agriculture, hotel work care work yes we need them, but contribute very little to our tax system by the time you take out Housing Benefit - tax credits - child tax credit which they are entitled too your figures are misleading - so if we need immigration again tell me what's wrong in counting them in and counting them out??????????
when we leave the EU what's wrong with a work visa scheme - A major Labour policy is to stop jobs being advertised directly abroad, and to stop gang masters fetching them in and taking an exorbitant rent to live in squalor barns or six to a room etc - you get me wrong if we need immigration for work - it needs controlling to stop such practices!
The NI numbers are often well higher than the immigration figures!
These practices would be stopped by controlling immigration!, and using work visas!

Hard to know where to start. Firstly, EU migrants are well known to be significantly more qualified than the native population, so the idea that they all come here to pick strawberries is simply not true whatsoever.

Secondly, as has been said on here what must be a hundred times, EU migrants contribute more in tax than they receive, according to the best figures we have. We don't have any figures for some of the things you're talking about, yet you seem to have reached your conclusion despite the absence of any evidence. I only wish this was the first time.

Finally, you talk about controlling immigration, well we can control immigration for all non-EU migrants. Again, going from the data we have, not only are non-EU migrants typically less qualified, but they also contribute less to the public purse. These are people we can control, and have been able to control for aeons. I would love to know where you get your confidence that this government, and indeed any government, can 'manage' immigration to the extent you believe they can, when the decades worth of evidence in front of your very eyes tells you its utter bobbins.

 

[The Cowboy]

Hard to know where to start. Firstly, EU migrants are well known to be significantly more qualified than the native population, so the idea that they all come here to pick strawberries is simply not true whatsoever.

Secondly, as has been said on here what must be a hundred times, EU migrants contribute more in tax than they receive, according to the best figures we have. We don't have any figures for some of the things you're talking about, yet you seem to have reached your conclusion despite the absence of any evidence. I only wish this was the first time.

Finally, you talk about controlling immigration, well we can control immigration for all non-EU migrants. Again, going from the data we have, not only are non-EU migrants typically less qualified, but they also contribute less to the public purse. These are people we can control, and have been able to control for aeons. I would love to know where you get your confidence that this government, and indeed any government, can 'manage' immigration to the extent you believe they can, when the decades worth of evidence in front of your very eyes tells you its utter bobbins.

Most low paid, seasonal jobs like strawberry picking is done by migrant workers. If we cannot get those jobs done by UK workers, seasonal visas it is then. Don't see a problem with that at all.

And as for skilled workers, well they can get a visa for their job as well. It's so simple.

 

[Seanjd]

Most low paid, seasonal jobs like strawberry picking is done by migrant workers. If we cannot get those jobs done by UK workers, seasonal visas it is then. Don't see a problem with that at all.

And as for skilled workers, well they can get a visa for their job as well. It's so simple.

So we give out visas for basically anybody from the EU who we need either to fill a job or has skills.

What would be the difference between that system and what already happens?

 

[Clint Planet]

Was at friends' yesterday and we had a big, long conversation about how ashamed and embarrassed we all feel about Brexit when talking to foreign friends and acquaintances. It makes no economic sense, is built on whopping lies and racism and it makes this country look small and rather pathetic. Still angry, tbh.

 

[Number_25]

I want my country back.

 

[Seanjd]

I want my country back.

I think it's funny how this absolute shambles of post-Brexit negotiations is what constitutes 'control'.

 

[The Cowboy]

So we give out visas for basically anybody from the EU who we need either to fill a job or has skills.

What would be the difference between that system and what already happens?

Quotas, my friend. Quotas.

 

[Joey66]

Hard to know where to start. Firstly, EU migrants are well known to be significantly more qualified than the native population, so the idea that they all come here to pick strawberries is simply not true whatsoever.

Secondly, as has been said on here what must be a hundred times, EU migrants contribute more in tax than they receive, according to the best figures we have. We don't have any figures for some of the things you're talking about, yet you seem to have reached your conclusion despite the absence of any evidence. I only wish this was the first time.

Finally, you talk about controlling immigration, well we can control immigration for all non-EU migrants. Again, going from the data we have, not only are non-EU migrants typically less qualified, but they also contribute less to the public purse. These are people we can control, and have been able to control for aeons. I would love to know where you get your confidence that this government, and indeed any government, can 'manage' immigration to the extent you believe they can, when the decades worth of evidence in front of your very eyes tells you its utter bobbins.

Bruce when we leave the EU we can have one immigration system for all immigrants create jobs with border control agents, and extra border police it will be easier as free movement will cease we have a two tier system which is broken when you have EU citizens just coming in free movement its difficult, if you control every visitor or visa worker its feasible, other countries manage it so we will have to do just that!

 

[Joey66]

If the general public knew the whole truth about NI numbers...

Yes they never match the immigration figures they are always far higher - the excuses they make?..................

 

[Old Blue 2]

Yes they never match the immigration figures they are always far higher - the excuses they make?..................

Believe me, Joey, it's much more than immigration figures...

 

[Joey66]

Believe me, Joey, it's much more than immigration figures...

oh I know that they blame it on students, short term immigrant workers who go back yet we never count anything under free movement, the figures are so excessive - as I stated if you do not control your borders anything can happen under the system of free movement that cannot be proved - the programme I heard this on was the DP Andrew Neil was mystified why NI numbers were so higher than the figures?