Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Old Blue 2]

Do you think people were generally well informed and educated on the referendum OB2?

Love the loaded questions from you, ghost!

First of all, and well you know it, NO ONE is in any position to comment on an informed basis as to how good the whole population were 'genned up' on the persuasive points of both sides. All that an individual can do is a) have their own views and opinions on the issue; b) either take note or not of the arguments/points made by either side; c) take note of points made by others in discussion with them. That is not exhaustive, but probably how things fell into place for most people.

No one was well informed on the minute details of every single aspect of remaining in the EU, and every single aspect of pulling out of the EU. That couldn't be done.

To precis: I cannot answer your question, nor can anyone else...

 

[Old Blue 2]

I think the complexities of the voting in that referendum run a little deeper than the reading of a leaflet.

|Sean,
My post #16619 answers the above - I was still typing as you posted.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Why don't we focus on the real issues, like what economic sense does it make to leave (i) the single market (ii) the customs union and (iii) what guarantees will the government give in terms of loss of citizen rights resulting from Brexit should it occur?

Quite simply, Esk, because they weren't the question(s) posed to me.

If you are going to pick me up on something, please get it right...

 

[The Esk]

Quite simply, Esk, because they weren't the question(s) posed to me.

If you are going to pick me up on something, please get it right...

Well, let me ask you the questions - the floor is your's to provide the answers.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Well, let me ask you the questions - the floor is your's to provide the answers.

First of all, your apology accepted for making a complete balls of your previous response to me.

You and I have posted for many months in this thread, and covered quite a range of topics whilst being on opposite sides of views.

So I'll have a bash at answering your points, but you won't like the answers. If you labour the point, I'm off to a guitar forum, or I'll crack on with writing my next book...

1. Economic sense? Come on, Esk, extracting the urine. NOBODY knows the economic future, not even you. So to try to pin me down on that - credit me with some intelligence...

2. The Customs Union. A matter for the politicians. They've got things right, and they've balls'd things up in the past. We will have to wait and see what they come up with. Again, can you see the crystal ball in front of me...?

3. We don't know the first thing about citizen's rights at present, and well you know that also. In my opinion (and this is only my opinion) there should be a fair and equitable scenario (equal in applicable terms) to EU citizens present in this country legally, and the same for UK citizens in EU countries. That is the common sense course of action, do you not agree? As far as what the Government will do, I am not a member of the Government, so I cannot possibly comment on any future course of action.

Thanks for the loaded questions, Esk.

NEXT!!!

 

[peteblue]

Why don't we focus on the real issues, like what economic sense does it make to leave (i) the single market (ii) the customs union and (iii) what guarantees will the government give in terms of loss of citizen rights resulting from Brexit should it occur?

I would turn it around....

What economic sense does it make to the EU for the UK to leave the single Market....

What economic sense does it make to the EU for the UK to leave the customs union....

What guarantees will the EU give to its people in terms of loss of UK military defensive capability resulting from Brexit.....

All because the Eu wouldn't give Cameron anything at all regarding movement of people......

 

[orly]

First of all, your apology accepted for making a complete balls of your previous response to me.

You and I have posted for many months in this thread, and covered quite a range of topics whilst being on opposite sides of views.

So I'll have a bash at answering your points, but you won't like the answers. If you labour the point, I'm off to a guitar forum, or I'll crack on with writing my next book...

Christ, other than being an angry swearer, you're also incredibly unpleasant

Still, you're another session closer to your final forum meltdown so that's a positive

 

[Old Blue 2]

Christ, other than being an angry swearer, you're also incredibly unpleasant

What are you on about?

Whats the matter with you?

Don't you believe what I posted as genuine...?

 

[The Esk]

First of all, your apology accepted for making a complete balls of your previous response to me.

You and I have posted for many months in this thread, and covered quite a range of topics whilst being on opposite sides of views.

So I'll have a bash at answering your points, but you won't like the answers. If you labour the point, I'm off to a guitar forum, or I'll crack on with writing my next book...

1. Economic sense? Come on, Esk, extracting the urine. NOBODY knows the economic future, not even you. So to try to pin me down on that - credit me with some intelligence...

2. The Customs Union. A matter for the politicians. They've got things right, and they've balls'd things up in the past. We will have to wait and see what they come up with. Again, can you see the crystal ball in front of me...?

3. We don't know the first thing about citizen's rights at present, and well you know that also. In my opinion (and this is only my opinion) there should be a fair and equitable scenario (equal in applicable terms) to EU citizens present in this country legally, and the same for UK citizens in EU countries. That is the common sense course of action, do you not agree? As far as what the Government will do, I am not a member of the Government, so I cannot possibly comment on any future course of action.

Thanks for the loaded questions, Esk.

NEXT!!!

I find it amazing that people can vote for change without knowing the consequences of that change - which in your own words is exactly what you and many who have similar views to you have done.

 

[peteblue]

I find it amazing that people can vote for change without knowing the consequences of that change - which in your own words is exactly what you and many who have similar views to you have done.

And yet you would vote for Corbyn tomorrow........

 

[JonS]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...take-back-control-eu-referendum-a7356806.html

A Leave voter who wants to exit the European Union so the UK can take “control of our own laws” has been embarrassed on a radio phone-in when he failed to name a single EU law he was most keen to get rid of.

Ashley, a self-employed electrician who called in to James O’Brien’s LBC radio show, claimed he was willing to take a “short-term” financial hit to his business if it meant leaving the EU.

He asserted he did not listen to the spurious economic claimsmade by the Leave campaign, but voted to exit the EU “for the independence” and to “control our own laws”.


When asked by Mr O’Brien which specific laws he disliked, Ashley initially responded: “Any.”

On being pressed further, he jokingly responded: “The shape of your bananas”.

Mr O’Brien remained unimpressed: “It's not funny, is it? The pound is at the lowest it's been since 1985, you just said "any law" and I'm just asking you to name one.


'Which EU Law Are You Most Looking Forward To Losing?'
This caller voted to leave the EU so we could take control of our own laws. James O'Brien asked which law he was most looking forward to getting rid of. This is what happened next.


"We both know that bananas was a lie made up by Boris Johnson. Remind me which side he was on during the Leave campaign.

"What is the law? You know you were going to take short-term economic damage, you knew that all your customers would do as a newly-formed electrician company. Every single customer in the country is going to be potentially worse off than they were before the vote.

"So I'm just wondering what those laws are that you won't have to obey any more that made you vote for this short-term economic hit.

"Can you name one?"

Ashley's responded: "I wouldn't be able to, no."

Ashley later explained he voted to Leave because the UK should have greater control over its immigration policy.

“If immigration is all you’ve got, then you’re the cliché,” Mr O’Brien commented.

Sounds like James O'Brien bullied the caller

Euroscepticism was alive and well before the U K joined the Common Market, with Tony Benn as its spiritual leader. Johnson's contribution was to latch on to a feeling already well established and use his gift for language to embellish / lie about the system's inadequacies.

Lying? Misrepresentation? I don't know.

I do know that ordinary people like Ashley should not feel excluded from the conversation because a commentator exercises his limited gift for debate.

I don't know. I may suspect. There are so many self appointed experts in this thread, I try very hard to avoid projecting knowledge I don't have.

Ordinary people likje Ashley are subject to pseudo intellectual sneering.

Little Englander Brexiteers: jolly good. You've soaked in the language of those who find the result distasteful, the irony being that the more such terms are used the less chance Remainers have of winning the second referendum they crave. As an Irishman, it doesn't offend me; others will take strongly agin it.

Agreed mate. He was/is being sneered at

 

[Old Blue 2]

I find it amazing that people can vote for change without knowing the consequences of that change - which in your own words is exactly what you and many who have similar views to you have done.

It's what we were doing in the 1970s, Esk. The original vote to join the Common Market (after countless times of De Gaulle saying 'Non' to us) was, in effect, a leap into the unknown.

All that can be said is that people of around my age (but I'm only speaking personally here), who have known a lot of changes over the decades, have looked at what the future in the EU might look like, and decided to vote to leave, in the hope and expectation that whatever the ups and downs are, we will be in a better place than we are now.

 

[The Esk]

we will be in a better place than we are now

You can't say that with any certainty, otherwise you would answer the 3 simple questions I asked you.

 

[Old Blue 2]

You can't say that with any certainty, otherwise you would answer the 3 simple questions I asked you.

Quote the correct part of the sentence, Esk, otherwise, heaven forbid, you may be called out as being disingenuous.

THIS: "...in the hope and expectation that whatever the ups and downs are, we will be in a better place than we are now..." is what I actually wrote, and it is a complete subordinate clause of the main sentence in which it is placed..."

What you quoted took it out of context...

 

[The Esk]

"...in the hope and expectation that whatever the ups and downs are, we will be in a better place than we are now..."

Hope and expectation has to be based on an understanding of what is going to happen in the future, otherwise it is blind hope and expectation based on nothing of substance.