Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JonS]

A pretty reasonable one, I'd have thought. Objectively, Ashley was spouting stuff he'd probably read in the Sun or maybe just heard from a UKIP leaflet but, even though he quite liked the idea if it, couldn't explain what exactly he wanted to rid himself of.

Ashley is being sold short not by O'Brien but by brexiteers who deceive him to their own ends.

That does sound a bit like you are saying he is too stupid to make his own mind up or not be brainwashed by the leave campaign

 

[bring the ghost on]

I have given previously the example of the right of association taken away by the Thatcher Government by an Order in Council from workers at GCHQ. So to raise Brexit as suddenly diminishing ordinary people's rights, as if that has never happened before, frankly surprises me...

Not that I disagree with you about the erosion of rights by the government, but two wrongs don't make a right. Just because it had happened before doesn't mean that leaving the EU won't diminish human rights.

 

[Old Blue 2]

You really think no one can answer the question "where people generally well informed and educated?"

I think it's very apparent that both sides told howlers, appealed to fear and did not make a real attempt to educate the public.

It's amazing the extent some people will go to in order to defend a result which went their own way, why can't you be objective about certain aspects, such as the public may not have been well informed?

I'm not defending the result in any way. It is what it is.

I agree that both sides told howlers. But should we expect anything else when it was politicians and financial 'experts' (I use the term loosely!) shouting the odds!

And I will reiterate, I cannot speak for the whole nation as to how well-informed or otherwise they were about all the issues surrounding the Referendum. Can you not see that? If you can't, then there's nothing more I can say...

 

[Clint Planet]

That does sound a bit like you are saying he is too stupid to make his own mind up or not be brainwashed by the leave campaign

In your opinion.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Not that I disagree with you about the erosion of rights by the government, but two wrongs don't make a right. Just because it had happened before doesn't mean that leaving the EU won't diminish human rights.

You are taking my point out of context, or not following what I meant.

I did say that Governments over a long period of time regulate/dictate the lives of the citizens. That is how it always has been, and I gave one example. I certainly do not subscribe to the view that 'two wrongs make a right'.

Another example is from the early 1970s, when Civil Service pay was regulated by the Pay Research Unit, a body set up by the Government to ensure that pay increases were determined accurately using all the financial information to hand at the time. A pay increase (tiny) was due, but the Ted Heath Government introduced a 'pay freeze', so nothing was paid. We were stitched, and were helpless to have it overturned.

There are probably other examples that others may be able to quote. Some may believe that the laws on terrorism have been taken beyond their original intention, I don't know. Some may believe the 'Stop & Search' laws are being abused, I don't know. But it is a case, as I have said before, that the Government of the day has always had the whip hand with regard to how the UK public are handled.

 

[1966efc]

A pretty reasonable one, I'd have thought. Objectively, Ashley was spouting stuff he'd probably read in the Sun or maybe just heard from a UKIP leaflet but, even though he quite liked the idea if it, couldn't explain what exactly he wanted to rid himself of.

Ashley is being sold short not by O'Brien but by brexiteers who deceive him to their own ends.

Who's to say? I imagine the media have played a part in forming his opinion. How many could say the same isn't true for them?

Did both camps lie to voters? I'd say they got pretty close to it. Giving the voters some credit, they probably discounted the wilder claims on both sides.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Who's to say? I imagine the media have played a part in forming his opinion. How many could say the same isn't true for them?

Did both camps lie to voters? I'd say they got pretty close to it. Giving the voters some credit, they probably discounted the wilder claims on both sides.

I voted remain mate, but came to my decision off my own bat, and without having to listen to 2 campaign groups who were so full of crap it was unbelievable. I also know a fair few leave voters who voted that way by thinking for themselves, and also not listening to the propaganda from the 2 campaign groups.

 

[1966efc]

I voted remain mate, but came to my decision off my own bat, and without having to listen to 2 campaign groups who were so full of crap it was unbelievable. I also know a fair few leave voters who voted that way by thinking for themselves, and also not listening to the propaganda from the 2 campaign groups.

I thought the 2 campaigns were so poor, I stopped listening to or reading about them about 12 days before the vote - unless Peter Kellner or John Curtice had something to say.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

I thought the 2 campaigns were so poor, I stopped listening to or reading about them about 12 days before the vote - unless Peter Kellner or John Curtice had something to say.

Agree mate, if I had made my decision on what the remain camp were saying if the outcome was leave, then we all should be living in cardboard boxes now on the street.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Agree mate, if I had made my decision on what the remain camp were saying if the outcome was leave, then we all should be living in cardboard boxes now on the street.

To be fair though:

a) we haven't left yet
b) these things aren't 'cliff edge' like, and tend to take time, so it was never likely to be the case that a switch would be flicked and recession we come
c) the Bank of England printed a whole load of money to try and stabalise markets in the immediate aftermath of the result.

 

[The Cowboy]

To be fair though:

a) we haven't left yet
b) these things aren't 'cliff edge' like, and tend to take time, so it was never likely to be the case that a switch would be flicked and recession we come
c) the Bank of England printed a whole load of money to try and stabalise markets in the immediate aftermath of the result.

Funny how because bad things haven't happened, it's because we haven't left yet.

But when bad things happen, like today's inflation rate rise, then 'welcome to Brexit folks, I hope you're proud of yourselves'.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

To be fair though:

a) we haven't left yet
b) these things aren't 'cliff edge' like, and tend to take time, so it was never likely to be the case that a switch would be flicked and recession we come
c) the Bank of England printed a whole load of money to try and stabalise markets in the immediate aftermath of the result.

I know we won't really know the consequences of leaving till it actually happens mate, it could be bad, or it could turn out okay, but I always felt that if the remain camp hadn't predicted armageddon then things may have been different, and I would now be a happy bunny.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Funny how because bad things haven't happened, it's because we haven't left yet.

But when bad things happen, like today's inflation rate rise, then 'welcome to Brexit folks, I hope you're proud of yourselves'.

Think those that try to blame the inflation rise on Brexit should do a little bit of research first, the last time it was this high was October 2014 when it was up to 1.3% (it's up to 1.2% now) way, way before the referendum vote took place.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Funny how because bad things haven't happened, it's because we haven't left yet.

But when bad things happen, like today's inflation rate rise, then 'welcome to Brexit folks, I hope you're proud of yourselves'.

As I said though, this isn't a case of a snapshot kind of thing, it will only become clear over time.

 

[JonS]

I voted remain mate, but came to my decision off my own bat, and without having to listen to 2 campaign groups who were so full of crap it was unbelievable. I also know a fair few leave voters who voted that way by thinking for themselves, and also not listening to the propaganda from the 2 campaign groups.

Though the campaigns weren't great I think people underestimate the ability of voters to think for themselves and make sound decisions according to what they believe