Current Affairs EU In or Out

[edge]

if people think immigration was a problem why isn't there view valid?
just because some people are happy about it ,why are there views allowed to trump those that don't want uncontrolled immigration .
bloody daft argument, a vote is a vote at the end of the day which ever way you lean on the subject.

 

[Old Blue 2]

..and of course "taking back control" (why do I always hear that in my head in that slippery little backstabber Gove's voice?) is in no way connected to "immigration."

Oh no.

"taking back control" in the sense of:
1. Not having the EU dictate what goes into some of the laws that pass through the UK Parliament; and
2. Not having the EU courts over-ride decisions made in the UK courts by Judges here validly appointed to do such work in the UK.
3. And not having that goon Juncker, for starters telling us what to do!

THAT is 'taking back control'...

 

[JonS]

Again similarities to the events across the pond. Losing side blames Trump camp of being racist and pigot because of the immigration thingy...but at the same time they choose not to see the real reason for Trumps win....jobs/economy...-> (power to control our own affairs...the main reason for brexit)

Exactly

 

[peteblue]

if people think immigration was a problem why isn't there view valid?
just because some people are happy about it ,why are there views allowed to trump those that don't want uncontrolled immigration .
bloody daft argument, a vote is a vote at the end of the day which ever way you lean on the subject.

We have been bullied into not talking about immigration. London loves it, cheap restaurant workers, cleaners, gardeners etc etc, so therefore it must be good. The wealthy London elite, really have this stitched up.......Esk will be on shortly to disagree.........

 

[JonS]

While not especially pro or anti Brexit this is a great article (too long to post here) in today's Guardian by a German Capitalist that encompasses Trump, Brexit, why they happened and suggests that neoliberal capitalism will gradually fade and die.

IMO he gets things bang on. Well worth a read if you can be bothered

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ing-time-on-capitalism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Brennan]

We have been bullied into not talking about immigration. London loves it, cheap restaurant workers, cleaners, gardeners etc etc, so therefore it must be good. The wealthy London elite, really have this stitched up.......Esk will be on shortly to disagree.........

Why did Liverpool vote remain ?

 

[Old Blue 2]

Why did Liverpool vote remain ?

For the simple reason that a certain %age of cities would vote remain... Liverpool was one of them.

 

[peteblue]

Why did Liverpool vote remain ?

Chico has a Polish butler and a Czech housekeeper........

 

[Brennan]

For the simple reason that a certain %age of cities would vote remain... Liverpool was one of them.

But there has to be a reason for it...

 

[JonS]

While not especially pro or anti Brexit this is a great article (too long to post here) in today's Guardian by a German Capitalist that encompasses Trump, Brexit, why they happened and suggests that neoliberal capitalism will gradually fade and die.

IMO he gets things bang on. Well worth a read if you can be bothered

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ing-time-on-capitalism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I meant to say the article is written by a German economist, not a German capitalist.

Reading it he has answered my question I posed earlier in the thread about why Merkel allowed in all the recent immigrants/refugees. the answer he says was to provide cheap labour for German companies and lower wage costs.

He has convinced me actually, that immigration does cause wages to drop for the indigenous population so from that point I would say that immigration may well have made wages and conditions worse for much of the population (probably those that voted Beexit or Trump) though I would agree with Esk and others that it may well , in theory increase the headline figures for measuring economic success of the country.

The warnings are plain though (including for many people on here) that overall the Votes for Brexit, Trump etc were to a large extent from people who do not feel hope or prospects for themselves or their offspring and to believe they were for any other primary reason is missing this very important point

 

[edge]

But there has to be a reason for it...

because we normally vote the losing way its how we roll , cant be different if you follow the masses

 

[JonS]

We have been bullied into not talking about immigration. London loves it, cheap restaurant workers, cleaners, gardeners etc etc, so therefore it must be good. The wealthy London elite, really have this stitched up.......Esk will be on shortly to disagree.........

See my post above and the article I have linked to which agrees with what you are saying that immigration is used to provide cheap labour for businesses (and probably the wealthy elite you mention too)

 

[Old Blue 2]

But there has to be a reason for it...

It is unusual in any kind of vote for there to be an exact 50/50.

Some across the country voted Remain; some across the country voted Leave. Leave carried the day. Nothing more complicated than that, really. Or are you chasing the 'cities' argument like Bruce...???

 

[Old Blue 2]

See my post above and the article I have linked to which agrees with what you are saying that immigration is used to provide cheap labour for businesses (and probably the wealthy elite you mention too)

I read that all the way through. That guy is scathing towards Merkel regarding the immigrant influx and the downward pressure that resulted on wages, saying that for businessmen, it meant lowest wages to pay to a readily-available workforce of immigrants. He pulled no punches.

 

[Brennan]

It is unusual in any kind of vote for there to be an exact 50/50.

Some across the country voted Remain; some across the country voted Leave. Leave carried the day. Nothing more complicated than that, really. Or are you chasing the 'cities' argument like Bruce...???

Are you suggesting that the significant difference in the vote in specific areas of the country were nothing more than coincidence ?