Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Clint Planet]

It's sad that you fetch the debate down to gutter level hence me sensibly not stooping as low as you are trying to make me if that's what you mean that's why I backed down ok!

Sorry if I offended you, mate. Apologies. But my original point is that "Immigrants" are a straw man when it comes to housing. It is well within the government's capabilities to build more social housing - but then, as Gideon Osborne said to Nick Clegg, "Build more council houses? God no - they just create more Labour voters."

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. Sorry, but this is utter bilge.

2. Unless I'm wrong, his point is, immigration was the number one reason for voting Leave and yet the areas with the most visible immigration voted Remain. Essentially, the "fear" of being swamped by immigrants was felt much more by those who hardly experienced it than those who did. That would tend to suggest it is a largely unfounded fear.

3. My street is probably 50% non-English speaking, mate. I actually like it. It isn't a bad thing in itself.

4. What is a bad thing is successive governments allowing the housing crisis to escalate at the expense of every ordinary working person, UK on non-UK.

5. And by the way, don't think opportunist posh-boys like Farage are your mate. They're just using you.

This needs a response, because it is utter bilge (to quote you). I have separated out your post for ease of reference.

1. It's not utter bilge. Bruce has harped on about cities at every turn, and how all the cities voted remain. It is a tiresome point and proves nothing, because the referendum was NOT a 'cities only' vote...

2. How can you possibly say that the number one reason for voting 'Leave' was immigration, when you have absolutely no information or facts to back up your contention. You are falling into the same trap as many other 'Remain' advocates on here by making bland statements without any proof to back them up whatsoever. Their value, therefore, is nil.

3. Your street has got nothing to do with the national vote on 23rd June.

4. The bad thing is that successive governments have not addressed ALL the issues surrounding the infrastructure of the country. Housing is but one. The Tory moves to 'cut, cut, cut' are another; financial suicide which I can explain in another post if you wish. Not funding the NHS commensurate with how things are changing is another.

5. If you think I'm a fan of Farage, or UKIP, then think again! I'm a Labour voter, all my life to the day I die.

 

[TheFinnFan]

3. The cold hard facts are that those people who live in contact with a higher percentage of immigrants tended to vote remain; those who merely worry about what UKIP fearmonger (without coming into contact with that many immigrants) tended to vote Leave.

Are immigrants and locals somehow separated in this because immigrants pretty much always live in the cities. Are their votes in this group that voted remain (?)

Even if not, do I sense despice towards woods and rural peeps here?

 

[Brennan]

According to a poll undertaken after the referendum, 49% of people said having the power to control our own affairs was the number 1 reason for voting leave. 33% said the main reason was immigration.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

This needs a response, because it is utter bilge (to quote you). I have separated out your post for ease of reference.

1. It's not utter bilge. Bruce has harped on about cities at every turn, and how all the cities voted remain. It is a tiresome point and proves nothing, because the referendum was NOT a 'cities only' vote...

2. How can you possibly say that the number one reason for voting 'Leave' was immigration, when you have absolutely no information or facts to back up your contention. You are falling into the same trap as many other 'Remain' advocates on here by making bland statements without any proof to back them up whatsoever. Their value, therefore, is nil.

3. Your street has got nothing to do with the national vote on 23rd June.

4. The bad thing is that successive governments have not addressed ALL the issues surrounding the infrastructure of the country. Housing is but one. The Tory moves to 'cut, cut, cut' are another; financial suicide which I can explain in another post if you wish. Not funding the NHS commensurate with how things are changing is another.

5. If you think I'm a fan of Farage, or UKIP, then think again! I'm a Labour voter, all my life to the day I die.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

'One third (of leave voters) (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” '
I'd imagine it's more than that as well as respondants wouldn't want to be seen as xenophobic. If I'd voted leave and I'd been lumped in with a load of UKIP supporters and far right groups I'd be angry as well, so I see where you're coming from but there can be no doubt that immigration was one of the main factors driving the leave campaign and vote.

 

[Clint Planet]

According to a poll undertaken after the referendum, 49% of people said having the power to control our own affairs was the number 1 reason for voting leave. 33% said the main reason was immigration.

I'd imagine it's more than that as well as respondants wouldn't want to be seen as xenophobic. If I'd voted leave and I'd been lumped in with a load of UKIP supporters and far right groups I'd be angry as well, so I see where you're coming from but there can be no doubt that immigration was one of the main factors driving the leave campaign and vote.

..and of course "taking back control" (why do I always hear that in my head in that slippery little backstabber Gove's voice?) is in no way connected to "immigration."

Oh no.

 

[Joey66]

Sorry if I offended you, mate. Apologies. But my original point is that "Immigrants" are a straw man when it comes to housing. It is well within the government's capabilities to build more social housing - but then, as Gideon Osborne said to Nick Clegg, "Build more council houses? God no - they just create more Labour voters."

The selling of council housing and now housing association property's is a valid point in the shortage it is a disgrace they were never replaced My background is from a council estate - I was fortunate to get on the housing ladder with hard work I do feel so sorry for the younger generation today!

 

[TheFinnFan]

According to a poll undertaken after the referendum, 49% of people said having the power to control our own affairs was the number 1 reason for voting leave. 33% said the main reason was immigration.

And because of these two reasons EU -as we know it- will be dead inside of few years...one might argue it's already dead.

 

[peteblue]

According to a poll undertaken after the referendum, 49% of people said having the power to control our own affairs was the number 1 reason for voting leave. 33% said the main reason was immigration.

That feels about the right percentage. All of the people I speak to who voted remain, have no real interest in immigration...........

 

[edge]

Are immigrants and locals somehow separated in this because immigrants pretty much always live in the cities. Are their votes in this group that voted remain (?)

Even if not, do I sense despice towards woods and rural peeps here?

bit of a mad one FinFan, residents in the Uk, of the former commonwealth , Aussies, Canadians , NZ ect were allowed to vote along with Irish, Malta , Cyprus citizens , and ex pats that had left as long ago as ten years before.
so it depends if you count them as immigrants.
Don't think there will be figures for non Uk born residents, but areas like Brent in London have very high figures on that score. hope that helps mate

 

[Clint Planet]

That feels about the right percentage. All of the people I speak to who voted remain, have no real interest in immigration...........

"Errmmm........."

 

[TheFinnFan]

That feels about the right percentage. All of the people I speak to who voted remain, have no real interest in immigration...........

Again similarities to the events across the pond. Losing side blames Trump camp of being racist and pigot because of the immigration thingy...but at the same time they choose not to see the real reason for Trumps win....jobs/economy...-> (power to control our own affairs...the main reason for brexit)

 

[peteblue]

..and of course "taking back control" (why do I always hear that in my head in that slippery little backstabber Gove's voice?) is in no way connected to "immigration."

Oh no.

I think you are wrong my friend. Immigration is an issue in certain parts of the country, but not everywhere. Personally I want us to control our own destiny, I insist on it in my own life. It's too easy to try to put people into easy described boxes when really we are all different and have different viewpoints. Its a complex story, not complicated, but complex and we all need to consider our real wants............

 

[peteblue]

"Errmmm........."

I actually know a lad who looks like him.........

 

[Old Blue 2]

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

'One third (of leave voters) (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” '
I'd imagine it's more than that as well as respondants wouldn't want to be seen as xenophobic. If I'd voted leave and I'd been lumped in with a load of UKIP supporters and far right groups I'd be angry as well, so I see where you're coming from but there can be no doubt that immigration was one of the main factors driving the leave campaign and vote.

Here we go again...

Someone quoting a miniscule poll as fact.

When are people going to understand that a tiny poll is in no way representative of the whole country.

Any poll on a country-wide issue has to have an enormous catchment and sample size in order to be statistically valid.

"...there can be no doubt that immigration was one of the main factors driving the leave campaign and vote..." This is pie-in-the-sky speculation, and has no foundation in fact.

Let me give you a FACT, Jimmy. I voted in the 1970s when the vote was put as to whether we should join the COMMON MARKET or not. The vote was NOT about any kind of political union whatsoever. Over the decades the trade scenario has morphed into a political union with those in power in the EU seeking ever more power and control. As one who is now long in the tooth, I did not like what I see the scenario is NOW for the UK, not for what it potentially WILL BECOME for the following generations. I believe that the UK will do equally as well outside of the EU, as in the EU. As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, the common sense people in positions of authority are seeing/saying that they NEED to continue to trade with the UK post-Brexit. Why? Because they see that a continuance of trade with us is still a good thing. We are freeing ourselves of the shackles of the EU. THAT is why I voted out. And that is a FACT.