Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Absolute Rollocks and you know it you lost so just live with the fact we will leave the EU!

Is it? Do you not think a lot of people voted for change as they were unhappy with their lot?

As I do, the disparity between the top and the bottom of the social spectrum has grown ever wider, many working class people voted for change to the status quo imo. Only I think they shot the wrong rabbit.

 

[Joey66]

In his defence, he has only asserted his right to campaign / agitate now for the status quo ante at some point ... different if he'd added something like "... before it happens".

Or he is going against the democratic vote?

 

[Joey66]

Is it? Do you not think a lot of people voted for change as they were unhappy with their lot?

As I do, the disparity between the top and the bottom of the social spectrum has grown ever wider, many working class people voted for change to the status quo imo. Only I think they shot the wrong rabbit.

Look the tories got a majority in the last election I didn't want it, but this is six months afterwards and the rich millionaires in court now are trying to reverse the referndum result not the working class people imo!

 

[The Esk]

Was Labour. Obviously can't answer for him, but he strikes me as a Social Democrat so probably no longer Labour.

Appreciate your sensible answers on my behalf

I'm still a member of the Labour party more out of habit currently.

I've never been attracted by the Liberals/social Democrats as they've never truly served the people I feel need the most support - the poor, sick, elderly, those in need of education and training, social care etc etc.

The reason I am so anti-Brexit is the damage it will do to the economy and as a direct result the impact that economic difficulties have on those very people I list above.

Economic difficulties don't really affect the elite, they just adjust their discretionary spending - travel business class not first, go easy on the wine cellar, stretch that car purchase out for another year, maybe have a 'staycation' rather than a third, fourth or fifth holiday of the year.

I'll repeat again the referendum was sold on a false premise and for the wrong reasons. It has no democratic legitemacy because of the above and constitutionally as an advisory referendum.

It is not the voice of the people it is the wish of a small number of exceedingly rich, non domiciled, non tax paying media owners who in the words of Murdoch have control and influence over Downing Street but not Brussels.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Look the tories got a majority in the last election I didn't want it, but this is six months afterwards and the rich millionaires in court now are trying to reverse the referndum result not the working class people imo!

Only they're not trying to reverse it at all Joey. They're trying to ensure that the Tories consult the House on their plans for Brexit, in line with our Parliamentary democracy. One of them is a Leave voter ffs.

All of which is irrelevant to the point I was making. A lot of working class people voted for change, but the change that will be delivered by Brexit is highly likely to see them even worse off in the short / medium term.

 

[joey_macmo]

Look the tories got a majority in the last election I didn't want it, but this is six months afterwards and the rich millionaires in court now are trying to reverse the referndum result not the working class people imo!

Its the government trying to subvert the law of the land Joey, for all your posts the other day trying to tell people how the court works you don't seem to know what the case is about or who brought it to the supreme court.

 

[1966efc]

Appreciate your sensible answers on my behalf

I'm still a member of the Labour party more out of habit currently.

I've never been attracted by the Liberals/social Democrats as they've never truly served the people I feel need the most support - the poor, sick, elderly, those in need of education and training, social care etc etc.

The reason I am so anti-Brexit is the damage it will do to the economy and as a direct result the impact that economic difficulties have on those very people I list above.

Economic difficulties don't really affect the elite, they just adjust their discretionary spending - travel business class not first, go easy on the wine cellar, stretch that car purchase out for another year, maybe have a 'staycation' rather than a third, fourth or fifth holiday of the year.

I'll repeat again the referendum was sold on a false premise and for the wrong reasons. It has no democratic legitemacy because of the above and constitutionally as an advisory referendum.

It is not the voice of the people it is the wish of a small number of exceedingly rich, non domiciled, non tax paying media owners who in the words of Murdoch have control and influence over Downing Street but not Brussels.

Yes, I should have said Social Democrat in the European sense rather than the Owen / Steele set up.

I get the thrust of your argument and also the vision of U K / Europe that you detailed some pages ago with your interpretation of the four freedoms. I also appreciate the passion of your convictions. I have a more optimistic view of public opinion in that I believe it is entirely possible to reverse Brexit at some point democratically. The exact means of achieving that isn't really for me to speculate on- be it a new party or the swaying of one or more of the major parties. If the people were hoodwinked as you believe, they'll make their feelings known in telling fashion.

As J M K said, "When the facts change, I change my opinion." As yet, I've seen no facts change. We've had hyperbole, buckets of rhetoric, and some grandstanding (on the national stage - GOT members being immune from such nonsense). Facts? We simply don't know what they are yet.

 

[The Esk]

As an interesting aside in 1948, the British Empire which constituted 800 million people (30% of the global population) offered complete freedom of movement into Britain.

The principle was well understood that one of the ways of growing an economy and benefitting other regions elsewhere was the free movement of people.

 

[Prevenger17]

As an interesting aside in 1948, the British Empire which constituted 800 million people (30% of the global population) offered complete freedom of movement into Britain.

Aye, that British Empire was a benevolent old regime, no doubt.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Only they're not trying to reverse it at all Joey. They're trying to ensure that the Tories consult the House on their plans for Brexit, in line with our Parliamentary democracy. One of them is a Leave voter ffs.

All of which is irrelevant to the point I was making. A lot of working class people voted for change, but the change that will be delivered by Brexit is highly likely to see them even worse off in the short / medium term.

Dog,
I agree with your first paragraph - the issue is whether the matter of how we come out goes before Parliament, or (as I posted many pages ago) the Government goes ahead and see it through without reference to Parliament, basically similar/identical to an 'Order in Council' (which Thatcher used to remove TU membership from GCHQ workers in the 1980s).

As for your second paragraph, I think we are all shooting in the dark on that one.

 

[Old Blue 2]

As an interesting aside in 1948, the British Empire which constituted 800 million people (30% of the global population) offered complete freedom of movement into Britain.

The principle was well understood that one of the ways of growing an economy and benefitting other regions elsewhere was the free movement of people.

I do believe once again, Esk, you are not telling the whole story here, but rather, you are framing things according to how your views shape up.

After WW2, the male population had decreased, and there was a requirement to build up the population again. Hence the 'open door' policy of free movement into Britain.

The diminution of the population also resulted in the introduction of Family Allowance, to encourage population growth once again.

 

[The Cowboy]

As an interesting aside in 1948, the British Empire which constituted 800 million people (30% of the global population) offered complete freedom of movement into Britain.

The principle was well understood that one of the ways of growing an economy and benefitting other regions elsewhere was the free movement of people.

The EU does not offer free movement into Britain. It offers limited movement only to those who live in the EU. The residents of the Commonwealth, and the rest of the world, get to look on, miserably.

 

[Joey66]

Its the government trying to subvert the law of the land Joey, for all your posts the other day trying to tell people how the court works you don't seem to know what the case is about or who brought it to the supreme court.

a patsy fetched the case to the high court a supposed Outer who was financing it????????????
ever heard the saying the Law is an ass?
Look what ever happens in the supreme court win or lose for article 50 it will be a blip either way I was saying it was a waste of time to go there as the EU negotiator today stated they will determine what exit we have its all immaterial imo just accept the democratic vote of OUT!

 

[Joey66]

As an interesting aside in 1948, the British Empire which constituted 800 million people (30% of the global population) offered complete freedom of movement into Britain.

The principle was well understood that one of the ways of growing an economy and benefitting other regions elsewhere was the free movement of people.

We have moved on from that date june the 23rd 2016 in fact!

 

[Joey66]

As an interesting aside in 1948, the British Empire which constituted 800 million people (30% of the global population) offered complete freedom of movement into Britain.

The principle was well understood that one of the ways of growing an economy and benefitting other regions elsewhere was the free movement of people.