Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JonS]

There's nothing democratic about an advisory referendum based on half truths and lies.

We live in a Parliamentary democracy, a representative democracy which has supremacy. It is for Parliament to decide our future, not an elaborate opinion poll.

At that parliamentary democracy decided/authorised a referendum on whether to leave or remain in the EU.

I doubt if there was a single politician who believed that that referendum was not to be acted on

 

[The Esk]

Poor that mate, really poor. People like you will destroy 'democracy' and then we will become real slaves to the system, when we don't even get offered a choice..

Not at all mate with respect. Ill conceived stunts such as the referendum cause more damage to the democratic cause.

It was poorly conceived, a sop to the Conservative's desire to cling onto power, poorly campaigned and most importantly was always going to be devisive which ever way the result.

The political cowards offered a referendum in the knowledge that whatever the result it would split and disenfranchise half the population.

 

[JonS]

Just saw that esks post when you quoted it. Im stunned. Looks like for some democracy only works when the result is right for them. It's exactly the same thing in US atm. This is the most dangerous kind of plotting and straight up threatens the core principles of democratic systems. Stun...ned. That kind of attitude and disrespect against voters is despicable...it divides people even more.

Even more so when we are hardly talking about the return of Nazi-ism or any other extremism but a very important constitutional decision which every country has the right to make.

 

[The Cowboy]

Referendums, in any country, no matter what is actually on the ballot, tend to hinge most on one question: "are you generally happy?"

I don't think the UK is a generally happy society these days, but this has little to do with the EU.

Little, perhaps, but not 'nothing'. It's a contributory factor.

 

[JonS]

Not at all mate with respect. Ill conceived stunts such as the referendum cause more damage to the democratic cause.

It was poorly conceived, a sop to the Conservative's desire to cling onto power, poorly campaigned and most importantly was always going to be devisive which ever way the result.

The political cowards offered a referendum in the knowledge that whatever the result it would split and disenfranchise half the population.

Every election splits the population. Disenfranchise? Maybe in terms that the poor little rich elite haven't got there way but not in practical terms IMO

 

[JonS]

@The Esk , since you are not in favour of democracy in this country can I suggest Singapore (featured here today in the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38173237) or Cuba as two examples of fairly benevolent dictatorships that IMO do well for their population.

Only issue is to emulate their systems we would have to leave the EU anyway...

 

[JLW]

Not at all mate with respect. Ill conceived stunts such as the referendum cause more damage to the democratic cause.

It was poorly conceived, a sop to the Conservative's desire to cling onto power, poorly campaigned and most importantly was always going to be devisive which ever way the result.

The political cowards offered a referendum in the knowledge that whatever the result it would split and disenfranchise half the population.

Like it does every 4 years when we have a general election, it divides the nation its normal. I have been on the wrong end of the vote for years but you accept it and carry on.[/QUOTE]

 

[JonS]

Like it does every 4 years when we have a general election, it divides the nation its normal. I have been on the wrong end of the vote for years but you accept it and carry on.

Exactly

 

[JLW]

Exactly

A blind future is obviously more appealing than the one that we can see. That's proven by the result.

 

[The Esk]

Like it does every 4 years when we have a general election, it divides the nation its normal. I have been on the wrong end of the vote for years but you accept it and carry on.

Not at all, a GE is not binary nor absolute. If the party of my choice does not form the Government then it usually sits in opposition and can at least express its views and hold the executive to account. Furthermore in 5 years I have the chance to vote again.

With the EU referendum the losing side, particularly the Remain side, seemingly have no voice thereafter, it's almost treason to express a view contrary to the 'result' and of course, once enacted cannot be reversed.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

There's nothing democratic about an advisory referendum based on half truths and lies.

We live in a Parliamentary democracy, a representative democracy which has supremacy. It is for Parliament to decide our future, not an elaborate opinion poll.

Not at all mate with respect. Ill conceived stunts such as the referendum cause more damage to the democratic cause.

It was poorly conceived, a sop to the Conservative's desire to cling onto power, poorly campaigned and most importantly was always going to be devisive which ever way the result.

The political cowards offered a referendum in the knowledge that whatever the result it would split and disenfranchise half the population.

Outrageous attitude, simply outrageous. People like you will bring about the rise of the true extreme far right. Once you go down this road of dismissing people's right's you'll have no cause to complain when anarchy follows. Some people have really shown themselves up during this referendum for the anti democratic fascists they are, the mask's have well and truly slipped.

 

[JonS]

Not at all, a GE is not binary nor absolute. If the party of my choice does not form the Government then it usually sits in opposition and can at least express its views and hold the executive to account. Furthermore in 5 years I have the chance to vote again.

With the EU referendum the losing side, particularly the Remain side, seemingly have no voice thereafter, it's almost treason to express a view contrary to the 'result' and of course, once enacted cannot be reversed.

Not that it really matters (us arguing on here) but if this was a debating competition I don't think your arguments would be judged as winning this one...

 

[orly]

Not at all, a GE is not binary nor absolute. If the party of my choice does not form the Government then it usually sits in opposition and can at least express its views and hold the executive to account. Furthermore in 5 years I have the chance to vote again.

With the EU referendum the losing side, particularly the Remain side, seemingly have no voice thereafter, it's almost treason to express a view contrary to the 'result' and of course, once enacted cannot be reversed.

Ah come on Esk, this is hyperbole and you know it.

 

[1966efc]

Not at all, a GE is not binary nor absolute. If the party of my choice does not form the Government then it usually sits in opposition and can at least express its views and hold the executive to account. Furthermore in 5 years I have the chance to vote again.

With the EU referendum the losing side, particularly the Remain side, seemingly have no voice thereafter, it's almost treason to express a view contrary to the 'result' and of course, once enacted cannot be reversed.

As a friendly opponent in this particular debate, allow me to contradict you and say that you can (and probably will) play a part in the ongoing campaign which Remainers are already organising. Even if you choose to eschew formal links with the Lib Dems or any new party, nothing to stop you standing in local - even national elections - as an independent.

 

[JonS]

Ah come on Esk, this is hyperbole and you know it.

He's an amazing poster, mod and person but in my opinion is having a nightmare here