Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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We do have a strange society where benefits for working people are truly a subsidy for employers, and housing benefit (which tenants don't see) is a subsidy for landlords. Buy to let mortgages for example move more money to the well enough off. In or out of the EU, we need to fix fair pay, fair rent, and fair opportunities to own a home. Social housing would be better for all than subsidising landlords....
 
JammyP said:
We do have a strange society where benefits for working people are truly a subsidy for employers, and housing benefit (which tenants don't see) is a subsidy for landlords. Buy to let mortgages for example move more money to the well enough off. In or out of the EU, we need to fix fair pay, fair rent, and fair opportunities to own a home. Social housing would be better for all than subsidising landlords....
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Direct policy from 1980s tory govts, less social housing replaced by housing benefit
 
Clint Planet said:
Most of the cleaners at my school are Congolese. These are the jobs that many white British people don't want to do, I suppose. The point is, though, they're sound - and they contribute.

The NHS would collapse without overseas workers. Get over it.
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I think this idea that they do jobs British people is a little unfair. It's the undercutting of wages that's the primary issue, not the job itself. If cleaners were paid £15 ph, I'll bet there'd be a far greater uptake. As it is, it's not feasible to live on the wages usually taken by overseas workers (though I have often wondered how they manage their own finances!).
 
The Cowboy said:
I think this idea that they do jobs British people is a little unfair. It's the undercutting of wages that's the primary issue, not the job itself. If cleaners were paid £15 ph, I'll bet there'd be a far greater uptake. As it is, it's not feasible to live on the wages usually taken by overseas workers (though I have often wondered how they manage their own finances!).
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No, I do agree with you. How anyone can get by in London on a cleaner's wage is beyond me, tbh. I'm all for a strictly enforced living wage (and not that Tory NLW cop-out).
 
The Cowboy said:
I think this idea that they do jobs British people is a little unfair. It's the undercutting of wages that's the primary issue, not the job itself. If cleaners were paid £15 ph, I'll bet there'd be a far greater uptake. As it is, it's not feasible to live on the wages usually taken by overseas workers (though I have often wondered how they manage their own finances!).
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There were always low paid jobs even before eu migration tho...
 
Clint Planet said:
No, I do agree with you. How anyone can get by in London on a cleaner's wage is beyond me, tbh. I'm all for a strictly enforced living wage (and not that Tory NLW cop-out).
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Anecdotally, I suspect multiple jobs + a large number of people per dwelling to reduce housing costs. I'm not commenting on the rights/wrongs of things, but it was far from uncommon a generation ago to have multiple people per room in a house, and I know from both my own experience and that of my partner, it's very much happening in London today. When I first moved here, for instance, the place I stayed in had 9 people in a 5 bed house (I was the only Brit, with 4 Venezuelans, 1 Pole, 1 French, 1 German and 1 Nigerian). I believe the two Venezuelan girls were cleaners (they were there with their 2 kids, so 4 in effectively one room).
 
Clint Planet said:
No, I do agree with you. How anyone can get by in London on a cleaner's wage is beyond me, tbh. I'm all for a strictly enforced living wage (and not that Tory NLW cop-out).
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As Bruce states, it is only by multiple jobs, sharing homes and working very hard. I used to have to get a night bus heading into the City at around 0430 when I worked in Shoreditch about ten years ago, and it was rammed (literally barely standing room only by the time it got to Kennington) with cleaners.
 
Clint Planet said:
No, I do agree with you. How anyone can get by in London on a cleaner's wage is beyond me, tbh. I'm all for a strictly enforced living wage (and not that Tory NLW cop-out).
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Plenty of EU (especially Polish) cleaners in London. If cleaning private households they will get at least £8ph. Will often have a partner who works also (builders quite common). Will probably live in a rented room or flat. Be on a lot more money overall than they will get in Poland (which is why they are here). The more successful ones (and I mean those with a builder husband's wage rather than just their cleaner wage) may actually manage to buy property in London. Expensive though it is.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
If I may, you're setting wholly unrealistic goals here. How can any research possibly account for such variables? How can they possibly tell whether the migrant was more skilled than the native, or whether the employer would automate work if it could not be achieved for a certain cost?

This may be worth reading though - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
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OK, let's assume both are equally-skilled: say, 19-year olds who are vying for a job as a chef.
 
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