Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

If you have quoted the actual numbers they used then they are wrong as they don't add up.

to your satisfaction you mean/
So the greatest BBC Political interviewer -imo in Andrew Neil gets the numbers wrong???? - I don't think so - you just do not like the numbers as they have blown the argument out of the window in the debate on here!

 

[roydo]

Ergo, unscrupulous businesses would much prefer to pay a qualified chef from an EU country than go to the time and trouble to invest in apprenticeship or similar role-related course, including subsidising it.

The UK is rammed with superb chefs from all over the world!

I have a lot of sympathy with the skill shortage @Joey66 highlighted earlier, and agree that the UK education system has for decades focused far too much on academic rather than vocational prowess.

But isnt that our fault?

 

[hullefc]

Interesting?

David Davis 'UK might pay EU for single market access'

 

[bflefc]

The UK is rammed with superb chefs from all over the world!

I have a lot of sympathy with the skill shortage @Joey66 highlighted earlier, and agree that the UK education system has for decades focused far too much on academic rather than vocational prowess.

But isnt that our fault?

I only used chefs as an example; I could just as easily have cited waitresses, bar staff, hotel staff, brickies etc

 

[Joey66]

Joey I published earlier that 2.2% of EU immigrants receive working age benefits. The EU immigrant population is 5.1 % of the UK population.

Given more of the EU immigrant population is of working age, you might expect the claimant figure to be higher than their proportion of the population.

The fact is it is 60% lower showing once and for all that the EU immigrant population claim less benefits per capita than the population as a whole whilst fully contributing to the tax take.

So are the figures of cost not the stress on our NHS /GPs etc you are saying almost 50 % of EU migrants claim some sort of benefit are they added into the positive outcomme of immigration? I do not think that those cost are added in so the fact also they still claim Child tax credit when the return home is mind blowing of a complete face!
whats wrong with a work visa then controlled immigration would be fine imo!

 

[davmaher]

A pretty self serving plea. How does this fit in with the tale that UK unemployed don't have the skills, for farm work, food preparation or seasonal infill......it beggars belief really.....and the left wing hand wringers seem pleased about it......

There's no doubt that the food industry is heavily reliant on migrant workers. The skill set for most of the jobs is pretty low, as you say, but there is the old chest-nut of indigenous UK citizens not being keen on this type of work. From personal experience I'd say there is some truth in this, but it's complicated by issues such as agency workers (which account for a significant number of these jobs) where the agencies themselves will go for migrant workers, sometimes even having offices in other countries to recruit.
There was a very funny debate on the BBC a couple of year ago when Greencore, Northampton were under pressure because of their extensive use of migrants. One of the panellists came out with the usual drivel about "we must make sure we have a work-force of our own that has the necessary skills for these jobs" and turned it into a training/education issue until someone pointed out that they were talking about people putting a bit of tomato onto a BLT sandwich.

 

[edge]

A pretty self serving plea. How does this fit in with the tale that UK unemployed don't have the skills, for farm work, food preparation or seasonal infill......it beggars belief really.....and the left wing hand wringers seem pleased about it......

well Pete we used to have a seasonal workers visa which controlled the numbers that sorted the crops out, wonder who else was doing the jobs at the same time surely not those work shy Brits?
Funny enough plenty in kirkdale, yes that's l4 used to do it, before anybody pipes up prove it silcocks farm was one that did employ from the area, up by Lydiate
Also some those bastions of the free marked listed conveniently forget to mention that they don't advertise in this country for workers, so its no surprise they don't have the uk staff.
Whole industries like the Scottish fishing factories are predominately populated by members of one community ,
they get brought over . have to take a package that includes job, housing , and transport which is deducted from there basic pay.
And yet some hold it up as a being good.

 

[peteblue]

The UK is rammed with superb chefs from all over the world!

I have a lot of sympathy with the skill shortage @Joey66 highlighted earlier, and agree that the UK education system has for decades focused far too much on academic rather than vocational prowess.

But isnt that our fault?

Probably the fault of Brexit......

But seriously, it does make you wonder about what the politicians have been doing for the past 20 years....."we have lifted the cap on student numbers and 100,000 more will go to university in the next 2 years, 700,000 more to further education. So today I set a target of 50 per cent of young adults going into higher education in the next century".......I don't think there was even a mention of vocational skills in the same speech.......

 

[Joey66]

There's no doubt that the food industry is heavily reliant on migrant workers. The skill set for most of the jobs is pretty low, as you say, but there is the old chest-nut of indigenous UK citizens not being keen on this type of work. From personal experience I'd say there is some truth in this, but it's complicated by issues such as agency workers (which account for a significant number of these jobs) where the agencies themselves will go for migrant workers, sometimes even having offices in other countries to recruit.
There was a very funny debate on the BBC a couple of year ago when Greencore, Northampton were under pressure because of their extensive use of migrants. One of the panellists came out with the usual drivel about "we must make sure we have a work-force of our own that has the necessary skills for these jobs" and turned it into a training/education issue until someone pointed out that they were talking about people putting a bit of tomato onto a BLT sandwich.

Why should it be that uk youngsters cannot work in agriculture or horticulture????
In my day I chose Horticulture against advice never looked back I worked in a nursery lining out in fields on a bonus scheme, to say the young cannot do it is a myth as if i could do it , and rise in to management then out UK youngsters instead of University can do it also!
Its a total myth the left wing pronounce about this the gang masters the rich are the ones who want cheap labour!

 

[Joey66]

Do you understand how the benefits system works for EU immigrants now Joey?

I am all ears?
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/benefits-for-non-uk-nationals-do-i-qualify

 

[Toffeelover]

Thanks for the personal comment.

The question is whether immigration is good for the economy or not? It has been proved beyond all reasonable doubt that immigrants are net contributors to the economy, and therefore benefit the economy.

Now people say what about the effect on public services? Conveniently the Government use this a reason to turn public opinion as its much easier to blame the immigrants than it is to fund public services to the levels that provide decent services for all. I'm not discounting that there are regional and local difficulties but the cause is the political decision not to fund the public service providers be it the NHS or the local councils to meet the need created.

The Government knows that immigration is a positive for the economy yet at the same time makes the political decision not to provide the resources required alongside any growth of local populations.

It could easily be remedied if the Government made it a political priority, but they don't and have allowed immigration to be used for the Brexit cause rather than defending it. It's political cowardice.

If you recall it was Blair who opened the doors for all, the leader then of the party you support. So funding has been failing from them in about 2005 not just now. Immigration can be beneficial but it has to be controlled. You mention the services but only the NHS in particular. What of Education, Welfare, Accommodation, Prison Service. If they are in their own vehicles do they pay Road Tax?

It is not as simple as you attempt to portray unfortunately.

 

[Joey66]

Interesting?

David Davis 'UK might pay EU for single market access'

that's ok if we can control immigration, and we ill be also 5 billion quids in and be able to trade worldwide too, if you read carefully that's just for access, not rejoining!

 

[Moomin]

The UK is rammed with superb chefs from all over the world!

I have a lot of sympathy with the skill shortage @Joey66 highlighted earlier, and agree that the UK education system has for decades focused far too much on academic rather than vocational prowess.

But isnt that our fault?

Definitely, I think as a country we should look at Finland and their excellent education record they have.

It's so much different from how we do it but they want the kids to be happy and find something that makes them happy.

 

[edge]

Probably the fault of Brexit......

But seriously, it does make you wonder about what the politicians have been doing for the past 20 years....."we have lifted the cap on student numbers and 100,000 more will go to university in the next 2 years, 700,000 more to further education. So today I set a target of 50 per cent of young adults going into higher education in the next century".......I don't think there was even a mention of vocational skills in the same speech.......

there will not be any Pete to easy to let other counties train people, then we exploit them by bringing them over here because its cheaper than investing in are own young people, then we just move on to the next poor country let them spend there money on education and training, take the ones we want leave them with a shortage of skills ,doctors nurses ect and nothing for there investment.
but its all good the neo liberals get to say we couldn't run the NHS without them, while putting a couple of quid into there favourite charity every month to give health care to poor countries with a nice glow around themselves about how good they are.

 

[Toffeelover]

Interesting letter from leaders of the UK food industry in The Times today. Not sure if it's been posted previously:

MIGRANT LABOUR CALL

Sir, The result of the EU referendum presents particular challenges as well as opportunities for the UK food chain. A settlement that recognises the critical role of the UK food chain will demonstrate how Brexit can be beneficial not just for our sector but for the wider economy too. We represent the four UK farming unions and 71 leading food businesses, with a collective turnover of more than £92 billion and employing more than 925,000 people across the UK.

For our sector, maintaining tariff-free access to the EU single market is vital. It is where 75 per cent of our food exports go, so all our farming and food businesses wish to achieve this outcome. The sector needs access to EU and non-EU seasonal and permanent labour, alongside assurances that EU workers already working permanently in the UK are allowed to remain.

This access to labour is essential as it underpins the UK food chain’s timely delivery of high-quality, affordable food to consumers. We urge the government to pursue both these goals, for the benefit of the whole of society and the economy.

Mark Allen, CEO, Dairy Crest; David Potts, CEO, Wm Morrison; Mike Coupe, CEO, J Sainsbury; Tomas Pietrangeli, managing director, Arla Foods; Steve Rowe, CEO, M&S; Andrew McInnes, managing director, Müller Milk & Ingredients; Giles Turrel, CEO, Weetabix; Richard Clothier, managing director, Wyke Farms; Meurig Raymond, president, NFU; Allan Bowie, president, NFU Scotland; Barclay Bell, president, Ulster Farmers Union; Stephen James, president, NFU Cymru. Plus a further 63 food businesses

Basically a nimby albeit a big one and ignores the other issues surrounding the exit vote.