End for Unsworth?

[Kev The Rat]

There is some absolute crap written in this thread about David Unsworth as though he has the authority to place reserve players in the first team, he never has had and never will have such power. The failure for the progression of young players must rest firmly with whoever is our manager at that time. It is undoubtedly true that the 'send out on loan principle' is a failure, can anyone say why Luke Garbutt remains on our books, if he can't be sold release him. If a player at Liverpool hasn't made the grade at a far earlier time than us they either get sold or shown the door, ruthless but effective as it allows for a continuous stream of talent without bottlenecks caused by our present system. Our loanees 'get experience' under many different systems without ever specialising in one as they do in the Liverpool model.
After what transpired yesterday I've run up the flag of surrender over my only male heir, my grandson Luke whose father is a dye in the wool red. I have battled hard and long for him to be a blue but yesterday made me wonder why the hell I bother supporting this club when all that happens is let down after let down. I've had over 65 years of disappointment culminating in yesterday's debacle. My family as a child were all reds, I got lampooned when Spurs hammered us 10 - 4 but I was a blue and stuck with my team. I've met many great blues socially, Dixie, Alex Young, Roy Vernon, Labby et seq, not one of those guys would believe yesterday's events and nor do I, enough is enough the barrel has been scraped through nothing the club says or does will hold water. I can't inflict our constant failure on to my grandson I don't have that right. My heart goes out to all the young blues who will get unmerciful stick at school just because of their allegiance to EFC, from one old blue to all you kids we are not worth supporting or playing for so take your support elsewhere and skip the indignities I've had to face over the years because the club is no longer worth it.

I have to say I’ve seen some dark days as a blue but the fact that so many are now saying they are giving up on the club makes the full weight of the humiliation all the more tangible.

 

[bol-uk]

What does Klopp say to these kids before the game? They certainly are NOT pulling up trees on a weekly basis as they are one place above our under 23's team yet they turn into world beaters for 90 minutes against us and then disappear again.
I honestly think the difference between us and them is HIM! He manages to get them playing in such a way that they a re different level. I can assue you that Gomez, Trent, Matip, Oxlaide, etc would not be this good for another manager EVER.

 

[nsno-chris]

What does Klopp say to these kids before the game? They certainly are NOT pulling up trees on a weekly basis as they are one place above our under 23's team yet they turn into world beaters for 90 minutes against us and then disappear again.
I honestly think the difference between us and them is HIM! He manages to get them playing in such a way that they a re different level. I can assue you that Gomez, Trent, Matip, Oxlaide, etc would not be this good for another manager EVER.

the difference is the style of play. Their setup mimics the first team, so they no their roles and positions as soon as called upon. I’d imagine it runs right through to the youth setup

winning crap in the u23 is pointless if you can’t step up, it’s why eyes have been cast at fat boy by Brands. He’s winning stuff without preparing the kids for the 1st team

 

[maccavennie]

the difference is the style of play. Their setup mimics the first team, so they no their roles and positions as soon as called upon. I’d imagine it runs right through to the youth setup

winning crap in the u23 is pointless if you can’t step up, it’s why eyes have been cast at fat boy by Brands. He’s winning stuff without preparing the kids for the 1st team

Nah, Unsy has us set up exactly the same as the 1st team... both play crap football so the transition is seamless.

tbf though mate, if Brands had any concerns with Unsworth I think we would have seen something at the start of the season. I haven't seen us set up or play any differently this season compared to last season so imo Brands must be more than happy with the job Unsworth is doing.... Or just not be arsed

 

[Khalekan]

There is some absolute crap written in this thread about David Unsworth as though he has the authority to place reserve players in the first team, he never has had and never will have such power. The failure for the progression of young players must rest firmly with whoever is our manager at that time. It is undoubtedly true that the 'send out on loan principle' is a failure, can anyone say why Luke Garbutt remains on our books, if he can't be sold release him. If a player at Liverpool hasn't made the grade at a far earlier time than us they either get sold or shown the door, ruthless but effective as it allows for a continuous stream of talent without bottlenecks caused by our present system. Our loanees 'get experience' under many different systems without ever specialising in one as they do in the Liverpool model.
After what transpired yesterday I've run up the flag of surrender over my only male heir, my grandson Luke whose father is a dye in the wool red. I have battled hard and long for him to be a blue but yesterday made me wonder why the hell I bother supporting this club when all that happens is let down after let down. I've had over 65 years of disappointment culminating in yesterday's debacle. My family as a child were all reds, I got lampooned when Spurs hammered us 10 - 4 but I was a blue and stuck with my team. I've met many great blues socially, Dixie, Alex Young, Roy Vernon, Labby et seq, not one of those guys would believe yesterday's events and nor do I, enough is enough the barrel has been scraped through nothing the club says or does will hold water. I can't inflict our constant failure on to my grandson I don't have that right. My heart goes out to all the young blues who will get unmerciful stick at school just because of their allegiance to EFC, from one old blue to all you kids we are not worth supporting or playing for so take your support elsewhere and skip the indignities I've had to face over the years because the club is no longer worth it.

Top post.

 

[bol-uk]

the difference is the style of play. Their setup mimics the first team, so they no their roles and positions as soon as called upon. I’d imagine it runs right through to the youth setup

winning crap in the u23 is pointless if you can’t step up, it’s why eyes have been cast at fat boy by Brands. He’s winning stuff without preparing the kids for the 1st team

But those kids aren’t playing that well at u23 level or their team would be storming the league
Klopp has the ability to make average players Amazing players as we keep seeing

 

[Professor Toffee]

What does Klopp say to these kids before the game? They certainly are NOT pulling up trees on a weekly basis as they are one place above our under 23's team yet they turn into world beaters for 90 minutes against us and then disappear again.
I honestly think the difference between us and them is HIM! He manages to get them playing in such a way that they a re different level. I can assue you that Gomez, Trent, Matip, Oxlaide, etc would not be this good for another manager EVER.

He said its Everton, just press them, they have no answer

 

[nsno-chris]

But those kids aren’t playing that well at u23 level or their team would be storming the league
Klopp has the ability to make average players Amazing players as we keep seeing

its irrelevant if their playing well or not, as long as they’re ready to step up. Obviously klopp will have an influence and give them the inspiration for the match, but they would have little to no time in the training ground with him but played almost identical to the first team, knowing when to press, what to do off the ball, where to run etc etc that all comes from the same system being implemented throughout

 

[nsno-chris]

Nah, Unsy has us set up exactly the same as the 1st team... both play crap football so the transition is seamless.

tbf though mate, if Brands had any concerns with Unsworth I think we would have seen something at the start of the season. I haven't seen us set up or play any differently this season compared to last season so imo Brands must be more than happy with the job Unsworth is doing.... Or just not be arsed

I think brands is starting to pay more attention to it now, he’s already made some comments about the u23 is that there to win cups

 

[blueblue]

There seems to be a huge difference in the way that Liverpool have their young players playing football and the way our young lads are taught to play. The first thing is that winning at academy and under 23 level counts for nothing and we seem to be more interested in developing strong under age teams rather than developing individual players.
Liverpool play a game based far more on passing and possession whereas we play a more direct game.

We are able to bring players through from the academy but it seems there is a very long transition between graduating from the academy and being able to play regularly in the first team.

 

[UltraVires]

Our academy is designed to win things...at academy level.

Top teams use their academy as a testing ground for how kids will need to play in the first team.

Until we change that, we will most likely not win anything at first team level (unless we bomb loads of ££££ on it) and we won’t see our young players progress beyond pointless loans to Hamilton and Derby.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

What does Klopp say to these kids before the game? They certainly are NOT pulling up trees on a weekly basis as they are one place above our under 23's team yet they turn into world beaters for 90 minutes against us and then disappear again.
I honestly think the difference between us and them is HIM! He manages to get them playing in such a way that they a re different level. I can assue you that Gomez, Trent, Matip, Oxlaide, etc would not be this good for another manager EVER.

Here's the thing, winning league titles at that level means nothing. Absolutely nothing. We know this because, how many of our kids have progressed into the 1st team over the last 10 years? Or even gone on to become decent Premier League 1st teamers elsewhere?

Liverpool, City (and other clubs, I might add) have made the decision to go with a strategy of consistency from top to bottom. They want their kids playing the same style as their 1st team, no matter the consequences.

It's not 'just' Klopp or 'just' Pep. That's far too simple an answer. One man alone does not have that level of impact. It's a strategic club decision from top to bottom and it takes bravery to play attractive Football with inferior players, to play out from the back, to keep it on the deck, to resist the urge to hoof it, because you know that you'll get caught out a lot - sometimes you'll look silly. But it's all with the end goal in mind, the bigger picture - to get these lads ready for the 1st team.

When these lads step up to the 1st team for Liverpool and City, it's like a duck to water for the most part. Look at the kids Liverpool played vs Villa in the cup. They got slaughtered 5-0, mostly because of silly mistakes that you'd associate with inexperience and youth, but they had a huge amount of possession, they pressed high. Even when the game was gone, they continued to play the ball out from the back and stick to their principles.

Liverpool and City are trying to ingrain a certain way of playing in their club, and getting it to run throughout the club's various academies. It's the same with Barcelona, Barca B and La Masia, they're training these kids to fit their system. No manager is going to Barcelona now and changing that system. It will be the same with City and Liverpool. When Klopp leaves, when Pep leaves, I bet you a pound to a penny that the clubs will seek to hire similar replacements in terms of style - or perhaps even from within the club. Arteta was obviously being groomed for that role at City before leaving for Arsenal and apparently Liverpool's assistant manager is similarly highly thought of.

Whether Unsworth goes or not, it's important the club recognise the need for consistency throughout the youth teams as well, instead of finding good players and farming them out on loan, where they ultimately get lost in the system.

 

[Westmalletripel]

What does Klopp say to these kids before the game? They certainly are NOT pulling up trees on a weekly basis as they are one place above our under 23's team yet they turn into world beaters for 90 minutes against us and then disappear again.
I honestly think the difference between us and them is HIM! He manages to get them playing in such a way that they a re different level. I can assue you that Gomez, Trent, Matip, Oxlaide, etc would not be this good for another manager EVER.

One word: PEDS

 

[ToffeeTim]

Our youth set up has been failing for a decade

 

[Sverre Takleifbotten]

Here's the thing, winning league titles at that level means nothing. Absolutely nothing. We know this because, how many of our kids have progressed into the 1st team over the last 10 years? Or even gone on to become decent Premier League 1st teamers elsewhere?

Liverpool, City (and other clubs, I might add) have made the decision to go with a strategy of consistency from top to bottom. They want their kids playing the same style as their 1st team, no matter the consequences.

It's not 'just' Klopp or 'just' Pep. That's far too simple an answer. One man alone does not have that level of impact. It's a strategic club decision from top to bottom and it takes bravery to play attractive Football with inferior players, to play out from the back, to keep it on the deck, to resist the urge to hoof it, because you know that you'll get caught out a lot - sometimes you'll look silly. But it's all with the end goal in mind, the bigger picture - to get these lads ready for the 1st team.

When these lads step up to the 1st team for Liverpool and City, it's like a duck to water for the most part. Look at the kids Liverpool played vs Villa in the cup. They got slaughtered 5-0, mostly because of silly mistakes that you'd associate with inexperience and youth, but they had a huge amount of possession, they pressed high. Even when the game was gone, they continued to play the ball out from the back and stick to their principles.

Liverpool and City are trying to ingrain a certain way of playing in their club, and getting it to run throughout the club's various academies. It's the same with Barcelona, Barca B and La Masia, they're training these kids to fit their system. No manager is going to Barcelona now and changing that system. It will be the same with City and Liverpool. When Klopp leaves, when Pep leaves, I bet you a pound to a penny that the clubs will seek to hire similar replacements in terms of style - or perhaps even from within the club. Arteta was obviously being groomed for that role at City before leaving for Arsenal and apparently Liverpool's assistant manager is similarly highly thought of.

Whether Unsworth goes or not, it's important the club recognise the need for consistency throughout the youth teams as well, instead of finding good players and farming them out on loan, where they ultimately get lost in the system.

Agree, but that was Brands big point when he came here. The problem is that we have to find our system, and coaches like Klopp and Pep have implemented their systems in City and Liverpool. Their football system is clearly defined while we have gone for a pragmatic in CS. Then it becomes difficult to implement a coherent system.